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President Donald Trump's United States of America

Admiral Beez

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The letter to Nancy will read very well to Trump's base.


IMO, this impeachment was a mistake. The Dems should have campaigned on the Ukraine matter certainly, as part of promoting the larger incompetence of Trump. Instead the Dems have given the GOP and Trump base a rallying point. If Biden is the candidate, Trump will destroy him through campaign ads, etc. Warren and Klobuchar can't win, as the GOP and Trump base and enough Dem voters will not support a woman. Nor is the country ready for a homosexual POTUS, so Buttigieg is out, I can already imagine Trump at his huge rallies making childish sodomy jokes over his unfortunate name.

The field of Dem candidates does not give me confidence that Trump can be beaten. Impeaching him only gives Trump something to shout about, how the establishment wants to undo 2016, and now wants to take the little man down, take away your voice, etc, etc. My prediction is Trump wins 2020 (still losing the popular vote) and the GOP keeps the Senate, whilst the House stays Dem, but several Dem reps lose to GOP. And then it's another four years of supreme court fights, etc. RBG will die eventually.
 
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Admiral Beez

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By not starting impeachment proceedings, it establishes precedent
True, but starting impeachment under these circumstances also establishes a precedent. When the Dems have the WH and the GOP the House, the latter will follow the Dem example and begin campaigning for impeachment immediately after the Dem POTUS election win. Sometimes I think the Dems do the right thing as opposed to doing what it takes to acheive their goal. Impeachment is a gift to Trump and probably just increased his odds of victory - the opposite of what Dems wanted.
 

lenaitch

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The conundrum of leadership; doing the right thing vs. doing what is right. It will ultimately be unsuccessful because of Republican control of the Senate, and no doubt provide fodder for Trump, but perhaps sometimes, because of conscious or oath, you need to tilt at windmills.
 

AlbertC

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Donald Trump impeached for abuse of power, obstruction

Lawmakers pass 2 articles of impeachment against U.S. president

The Associated Press · Posted: Dec 18, 2019 4:50 AM ET

The U.S. House of Representatives has impeached President Donald Trump, marking just the third time in history it has voted to recommend removing a sitting president.

The first vote on the charge of abuse of power passed 230 to 197 Wednesday evening, with one member voting present — registering neither for nor against.

The historic vote split along party lines, much the way it has divided the nation, over the charges that the 45th president abused the power of his office by enlisting a foreign government to investigate a political rival ahead of the 2020 election.

 

Johnny Au

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Donald Trump impeached for abuse of power, obstruction

Lawmakers pass 2 articles of impeachment against U.S. president

The Associated Press · Posted: Dec 18, 2019 4:50 AM ET

The U.S. House of Representatives has impeached President Donald Trump, marking just the third time in history it has voted to recommend removing a sitting president.

The first vote on the charge of abuse of power passed 230 to 197 Wednesday evening, with one member voting present — registering neither for nor against.

The historic vote split along party lines, much the way it has divided the nation, over the charges that the 45th president abused the power of his office by enlisting a foreign government to investigate a political rival ahead of the 2020 election.

Next up, the Senate.

However, the Senate is Trump-friendly.

Very likely will Trump be acquitted.

Washington and the rest of the Founding Fathers are rolling in their graves.
 

PinkLucy

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And McConnell has admitted he will not be impartial and will take direction from the White House. Now just how will he swear his oath?
 

W. K. Lis

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Since the current Senate would likely find Donald Trump innocent (by reason of insanity?), maybe delay sending the articles until after the next November election.

After all, there's a backlog in the Senate that they have to go through first.
 

Admiral Beez

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Trump's letter was excellent, and will absolutely appeal to his base and many fence sitters and undecideds. Whilst the impeachment decision will do nothing to appeal to the Dem base because they're now coming to the realization that it's meaningless, it doesn't remove or even limit Trump.

This is all such a mistake by the Dems. The Dems in the House should have just campaigned on the poor and corrupt leadership they believe took place. Instead by making Ukraine a pivotal issues, they've kneecapped Biden's chances in 2020. Who's left? It can't be a woman nor a homosexual, not against Trump. There's no one I see in the Dem camp that can beat Trump now.
 

BurlOak

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What is happening to democracy in North America.
In Canada, the PM is elected because of his hair.
In USA, the Prez is impeached because of his hair.
Of course, there are other factors, such as Trudeau's good looks and his famous name, as well as Trumps aggressive attempt to drain the swamp and use of non-formal language.
 

AlvinofDiaspar

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What is happening to democracy in North America.
In Canada, the PM is elected because of his hair.
In USA, the Prez is impeached because of his hair.
Of course, there are other factors, such as Trudeau's good looks and his famous name, as well as Trumps aggressive attempt to drain the swamp and use of non-formal language.
Always count on someone with a history of shady dealing and moral ineptitude to "drain the swamp" - nevermind the track record of individuals he appoints to positions of power (the best people!). It's not non-formal language, it's bullshit. The very fact that you are pushing this sort of rationale explains quite well what's happening to democracy in North America.

AoD
 

Johnny Au

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If Trump is acquitted from impeachment by the Senate, one historian specializing in American presidential history said that it could mark the point that the United States would begin to become a populist authoritarian state. The same historian also said that if it went the other way, it could mean that the balance of power is shifted to Congress over the other branches.

Source: https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/what-will-history-say-about-the-trump-impeachment-1.5400734

Presidential historian Kendrick Clements, a professor emeritus at the University of South Carolina, said he's been struck by Trump's blanket refusal to co-operate with the investigation or to provide requested information to investigators.
Clements said this could have long-term consequences. "If that refusal stands, it would mean that a president is immune from prosecution for illegal acts and that Congress's investigative powers are severely curtailed," he said.
He said the deepening polarization of U.S. politics has not yet ended all co-operation between the parties on issues, but he said there is an increasing risk of the legislative branch of the U.S. government becoming completely paralyzed — which would leave the president a freer hand to do whatever he pleases.
He said it's hard to predict future historians' views, because they will depend on still-unknown developments in American democracy.
For example, he said a Senate acquittal might be seen someday as "the moment when the U.S. turned away from democracy toward authoritarianism." On the other hand, he said, should the Senate agree to oust Trump, it's also possible that future historians might declare this is when the balance of power between the branches of government tipped toward congressional dominance. While he said he hopes the U.S. avoids either extreme, he's a little worried about the state of affairs.
"The edge of the precipice is frighteningly close, and the short-term outlook for a happy new year doesn't seem very bright."
Me, I believe that Trump would ultimately not be impeached and I take the view of the United States beginning to be a populist authoritarian state (regardless of which party the president represents) if this precedent were to hold true.
 
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BurlOak

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It's more a matter of democracy. If one branch of government has a majority, should they be able to remove the other just because they don't like the election results.
The intent was that these branches work together - but this will declare perpetual war anytime similar majorities exist anywhere.
Let's hope that instead of dragging this out with a long senate trail intended to get even with the house - they just quickly vote to toss it out as the frivolous lawsuit that it is.
 

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