News   Apr 24, 2024
 616     1 
News   Apr 24, 2024
 829     1 
News   Apr 24, 2024
 547     0 

Premier Doug Ford's Ontario

Well, he did unite Ontario against him now, so maybe he'd do the same federally.

Is there not a serious lack of space in the French immersion system?
Lack of qualified (!!!!) teachers?

It is a problem of the education system.

I don't think that was a problem previously - I think what happened was that French Immersion is increasingly being seen as a sort of "enhanced" program by parents.

AoD
 
Well, he did unite Ontario against him now, so maybe he'd do the same federally.



I don't think that was a problem previously - I think what happened was that French Immersion is increasingly being seen as a sort of "enhanced" program by parents.

AoD

You're both right. There is a shortage of teachers who are qualified to teach French, both regular and immersion.

Part of the reason for that IS the explosive growth in demand for immersion; which is, in part, driven by a desire of parents to get their kids the best education they can get through the public system.

There is a direct academic value in immersion, but the principle factor here is that it tends to attract motivated parents/kids; which means it excludes kids w/learning disabilities or who have other challenges and/or less ambition.

Which in turn means you enrolling your kids with other high-performers, which allows for equally qualified teachers to provide instruction in line w/the abilities of their students and spend less time worrying about those who might be left behind.

Not very fair to those who are left behind; not the utopian reason for more immersion either.

Nonetheless for those who are seeking immersion because of a family history of French or a desire to learn that will the find the program a challenge to get into as a result of demand exceeding supply.
 
Part of the reason for that IS the explosive growth in demand for immersion; which is, in part, driven by a desire of parents to get their kids the best education they can get through the public system.
And partially because it has effectively become a private stream nestled inside our public education system. Educated and well-to-do parents are the ones sending their kids to immersion schools.

Curious if that will lead to a class-based impact in Toronto within a generation, or if the french immersion gross enrollment numbers are too small and only will make negligible impact.
 
Technology will make learning other languages in the future obsolete.
Hah, now that is an interesting notion. Yes, universal translators will probably emerge as an exciting new technology.

But I think this is something that monolinguals fail to understand most about speaking multiple languages. Learning a new language really does expand your brain, and impacts your mannerisms, your way of thinking and approaching subjects and people. It all changes depending on the language you are speaking. Some languages are more expressive, while others are more specific. I can tell you that I have had experiences where I concretely explained an idea in one language, and while translating the concept to another language for the benefit of someone in the room, various flaws and improvements to the idea flooded my head during the translation, because I think the way the idea was approached in my head changed drastically with the other language.

I think those nuances in describing subjects, expressing ideas, and conveying feeling would all be lost with a universal translator, even if it greatly expands the ease of communication. I believe there is still great merit with learning a new language even if a universal translator becomes a ubiquitous technology.
 
Technology will make learning other languages in the future obsolete.

Beyond @WislaHD 's very fine point.......

A universal translator doesn't really work when listening to someone's music (it may be able to translate the words, but not sing them in the same voice).........

Nor for movies/TV other various cultural products.

There are also other limitations that will be a challenge to overcome, certainly in real-time conversations..........

There are any number of things that can be literally translated but don't really make any sense to a speaker of a different language.

Example.....in French, you many use the phrase “Ne pas être dans son assiette.”

Which literally translates to 'not being in one's plate'.

Its an idiom that doesn't have a natural English equivalent.

Best I could do would be.........something like ......"I just don't feel like me today; I'm not in my plate"

Sorta like feeling off, not normal, but not quite being able to discern why.

A universal translator won't be able to handle that for awhile.
 
?
City of Brampton gives former Ontario premier key to the city

From link.

photo_1.jpg


Tributes and accolades poured in from various dignitaries for one of Brampton’s most famous citizens as Mayor Patrick Brown presented former Ontario premier Bill Davis with the Key to the City in a ceremony at the Rose Theatre on Monday, November 25.

A celebratory vehicle procession transported the 90 year old Davis, from his home in downtown Brampton south of Gage Park, along Main Street to the Rose for the start of the ceremony at 7 pm.

Various guest speakers included Brown, Toronto Mayor John Tory, former Toronto Argonaut and current GM Mike “Pinball” Clemons, former Mississauga mayor Hazel McCallion, former Brampton MP John McDermid, former Queen’s Park reporter Robert Fisher and video packages from former prime minister Brian Mulroney and TVO host Steve Paikin.

Under Davis’ tenure as minister and premier, the community college system in Ontario was created and post secondary education was expanded, the provincial environment ministry was created, regional government was established (an issue which created recent headlines to this day) and he took a central role in negotiating Canada’s constitutional accord in 1982.

But throughout his long political career, Davis would always invoke Canada’s ninth largest city, his hometown for more than 60 years. It was often said any Davis speech would have to invoke ‘Brampton’ at least three times.

“Brampton Bill has taught me about how to be collaborative around the council table,” Brown said, bringing up Davis’ early life, political career and work in education. The mayor often spoke of Davis as being his personal political model and how his style of moderation and inclusiveness was sorely missing in today’s political discussion.

“He ran one of the most modern, progressive governments in Ontario and brought a healthy dose of small town values while in office,” Tory, who began his own political career as a staffer for Davis at Queen’s Park, said. When Davis became an MPP, Brampton’s population was barely 10,000 people.

“We need more Bill Davies. The message sent should be that there is strength in working together and respecting minorities and those who are struggling,” Tory added.

Former Mississauga mayor Hazel McCallion, who often clashed with Davis during the negotiations on forming regional government in the 1970s, echoed those sentiments and “thanked” the former premier for “giving her” the opportunity to become Mississauga mayor. McCallion was the mayor of what was then the town of Streetsville which was amalgamated into the new City of Mississauga in 1974.

Davis, who is known for whitty sarcasm in his many speeches, said he enjoyed knowing Brown for the last two years as the mayor often sought his advice on various issues and looked forward to seeing him become a federal MP again and then prime minister.


According to the city, the key is “a symbolic honour bestowed upon a highly valued member of the community or a celebrated or dignified guests of the city who made a significant impact on the lives of Bramptonians. It is presented at the discretion of the sitting mayor.”

Since Davis retired in 1985 after serving as premier, one might wonder why it took so long to bestow this honour, as there were three other mayors before Brown. The immediate past mayor, former Liberal MPP Linda Jeffrey, was endorsed by Davis (as was Brown, ironically when he defeated Jeffrey).

But Jeffrey during her term appointed Davis on an advisory panel to figure out a plan to bring Brampton a university, so perhaps it would be too much to give a key to the city to someone actively advising the mayor on a major public policy matter.

That, and the fact that Jeffrey and Davis had a major public disagreement over the route of the Hurontario LRT may have had something to do with deterring the previous mayor from giving the living Brampton legend such an honour.

If there is anything we can learn from Davis’ political career, whether the application can be made in Brampton or beyond, is that in this turbulent world of tribal and populist politics there needs to be room for a more collaborative, if not competent, style of governing that thinks beyond ideology and just does what makes sense.

Bill Davis exemplifies much of that style that seems lost today.

Missing in the action is Doug Ford.
 
My kids and many others I knew grew up learning English and French simultaneously because their parents were bilingual. They are all fully bilingual now as adults and didn’t experience any problems.

Myself, I was talking about early-education situations (kindergarten and below). So, the issues the teacher mentioned are a slower development in overall language skills. The end result is great, but kids living in multilingual households tend to fall behind single-language kids in comprehension in early years. My nephews and niece are growing up in an immersive tri-lingual household (English, French, Greek) and this has apparently caused them to be late to speak (2+), and with my 10 year old nephews, struggle with English language more than other kids. my niece isn’t in school yet, but she’s following the same pattern. Like I said though, at the end of it all it’s a good thing and kids do eventually catch up, but it can cause issues in the interim and get kids can streamed down or treated remedially when they don’t necessarily have any true learning disabilities/hinderance.
 
That wasn't my experience or the experience of any of the kids we knew. We lived in bilingual households but also a bilingual community. They attended French school (not immersion, actual French school). It was just a way of life, people go back and forth between French and English as the occasion requires. I remember reading research that we should raise them either English-speaking or French-speaking because they would confuse the two languages, but we didn't, and there was no confusion (like mixed-up sentences or anything). Maybe we were just lucky. Maybe it's because we were deliberate about them being bilingual but didn't overthink how that would happen. Maybe because we read to them always (in both languages), watched tv in both languages and encouraged language development. We spoke to them in "normal" language, not baby talk. I don't know, it's just how we all did it.
 
That wasn't my experience or the experience of any of the kids we knew. We lived in bilingual households but also a bilingual community. They attended French school (not immersion, actual French school). It was just a way of life, people go back and forth between French and English as the occasion requires. I remember reading research that we should raise them either English-speaking or French-speaking because they would confuse the two languages, but we didn't, and there was no confusion (like mixed-up sentences or anything). Maybe we were just lucky. Maybe it's because we were deliberate about them being bilingual but didn't overthink how that would happen. Maybe because we read to them always (in both languages), watched tv in both languages and encouraged language development. We spoke to them in "normal" language, not baby talk. I don't know, it's just how we all did it.

I agree. Although not bilingual by any stretch, I spent a number of years working in bilingual communities in northeastern Ontario (one of which could have better been described as Francophone) and currently live in a bilingual community. I also had bilingual colleagues raised in the northeast. The complete ease and comfort kids had in flipping back and forth between the two languages, even within the same conversation (because of my presence) was truly impressive. The kids of one of these colleagues, who would have been pre-teens back then, have gone on to highly successful careers. Many businesses where I currently live have staff that can do the same and still remain fully fluent at the professional and technical level with their employees, customers, technical manuals, etc.
 
Wow, I haven't seen or heard anything about Bill Davis in years (decades, even), and while one obviously anticipates changes in peoples' appearances as time passes, it was still something of a shock to see how much he's aged. I know, what else can you expect? The man's in his 90's now, but still. He was an extremely robust figure when I was kid, and to see him again for the first time in years like this...Well. Like I said, it was a shock.

And isn't it interesting that a certain asshole wasn't invited to partake in the festivities while the supposedly disgraced Patrick Brown was front and centre? Doubly ironic given that Dofo was one of the principle figures responsible for Brown's ouster as the former party leader, and that's the case even if Thug was nothing more than a stooge in that dirty little plot. I daresay our beloved Premiere's none-too-pleased to be among the uninvited at this particular shindig. Ford's every bit the fame whore that his late, unlamented brother was and must be seething that he couldn't shove his fat face into every camera in sight here. To say nothing of the fact he's obviously got his sights on greener pastures since the election, and to be rendered a non-person at an event like this doesn't speak well of his popularity within the party.
 
Beyond @WislaHD 's very fine point.......

A universal translator doesn't really work when listening to someone's music (it may be able to translate the words, but not sing them in the same voice).........

Nor for movies/TV other various cultural products.

There are also other limitations that will be a challenge to overcome, certainly in real-time conversations..........

There are any number of things that can be literally translated but don't really make any sense to a speaker of a different language.

Example.....in French, you many use the phrase “Ne pas être dans son assiette.”

Which literally translates to 'not being in one's plate'.

Its an idiom that doesn't have a natural English equivalent.

Best I could do would be.........something like ......"I just don't feel like me today; I'm not in my plate"

Sorta like feeling off, not normal, but not quite being able to discern why.

A universal translator won't be able to handle that for awhile.

Just to be clear, the advent of this technology doesn't mean that I'm advocating abandoning learning other languages. I'm fluent in more than one myself, and I'm very proud of that fact. I can thank my parents for always speaking to me only in their mother tongue from birth on (I was born and raised in Toronto).

I wish I had properly learned French, but when I grew up the demand was not what it is today. Most parents here didn't see much value in pushing their kids to learn it because the thinking at the time seemed to be that there was no use for it unless you live in Quebec.
 
Well, he did unite Ontario against him now, so maybe he'd do the same federally.



I don't think that was a problem previously - I think what happened was that French Immersion is increasingly being seen as a sort of "enhanced" program by parents.

AoD
Of course it is.
 

Back
Top