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Premier Doug Ford's Ontario

As someone who started bilingual (mother was Quebecoise), lost a good deal of it by grade 4 when the schools here started French, regained a good deal by the time I graduated HS (took French all the way through), then traveled, including to France, and is now losing it again due to rustyness........

I see a value in being bilingual, I do think a younger age makes a difference in terms of ease of learning, as does immersion in terms of preferred technique.

For contemporary knowledge on the subject, my niece did immersion.

A few further thoughts, getting into immersion is not as easy as checking a box; there is/was a lottery system as there are far fewer immersion spaces than demand.

So simply wanting/requesting immersion is not enough; the education system has both financial constraints and too few qualified French teachers to aggressively expand the system

The full-on French system in Toronto is busting at the seems, as it is grossly under capitalized (they require larger and additional schools, but have been denied access in the past to closed TDSB schools.)

Further, as outline above by @zang, the way in which non-immersion French is taught is not very effective.

We need more money and more teacher training to get the number of student places in the French and French immersion systems up to where they should be.

We also need to change the way non-immersion French is taught.

The province of New Brunswick is testing a new way to do this as we speak.

Their report from 2012 on what changes they were looking at is below.


I would suggest introducing French no later than Grade 3, and I think after 1 year of 'basics' where French should be 1-hour per day, every day; the next year ALL students should have to do 1 semester in French, entirely, no English class.

From there continuing on could be elective; because I think we could reach near-fluency in 18-months and provide a sound basis where students could go into immersion late; or continue on with regular classes in English but pursue 'advanced' French courses within an English program; or decide they won't want to go further.
 
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As someone who started bilingual (mother was Quebecoise), lost a good deal of it by grade 4 when the schools here started French, regained a good deal by the time I graduated HS (took French all the way through), then traveled, including to France, and is now losing it again due to rustyness........

I see a value in being bilingual, I do think a younger age makes a difference in terms of ease of learning, as does immersion in terms of preferred technique.

For contemporary knowledge on the subject, my niece did immersion.

A few further thoughts, getting into immersion is not as easy as checking a box; there is/was a lottery system as there are far fewer immersion spaces than demand.

So simply wanting/requesting immersion is not enough; the education system has both financial constraints and too few qualified French teachers to aggressively expand the system

The full-on French system in Toronto is busting at the seems, as is grossly under capitalized (they require larger and additional schools, but have been denied access in the past to closed TDSB schools.

Further, as outline above by @zang, the way in which non-immersion French is taught is not very effective.

We need more money and more teacher training to get the number of student places in the French and French immersion systems up to where they should be.

We also need to change the way non-immersion French is taught.

The province of New Brunswick is testing a new way to do this as we speak.

Their report from 2012 on what changes they were looking at is below.


I would suggest introducing French no later than Grade 3, and I think after 1 year of 'basics' where French should be 1-hour per day, every day; the next year ALL students should have to do 1 semester in French, entirely, no English class.

From there continuing on could be elective; because I think we could reach near-fluency in 18-months and provide a sound basis where students could go into immersion late; or continue on with regular classes in English but pursue 'advanced' French courses within an English program; or decide they won't want to go further.

I think immersion was a lot easier to get into two decades ago than now.

AoD
 
I think it would be great for the country and for people really...

Like its crazy students learn french from grade 4 to grade 9 and dont remember anything or even any basics at all.

Like in a lot of countries people learn English along with their local language so its not rocket science.
 
I’ve talked with my daughter’s teacher about this. The problem is that kids are still learning the fundamentals of English at the same time; especially with moving from a gendered language to a non-gendered one. It slows the development of both languages. My nephews are growing up in a French/English household and have experienced the same issues that the teacher told me would happen.

The problem is not so much about when they start, but the style of teaching. We emphasize the speak and repeat method, as opposed to immersion. This is why those in immersion schools are far more successful than those who just get the standalone lessons.
Yet somehow, this barrier isn't really a problem in other countries.

I truly believe that French language education in Ontario is piss-poor and largely the reason why we have an apathetic monolingual population. I remember clearly being turned off from French due to a string of terrible teachers, and it was a subject that I ignored from the moment I could get out of it in Grade 9, until my final semester of university when I needed an extra course credit and I opted to take French 101.

And what a difference that class was. The professor came from Europe and knew how to teach a language through complete immersion in class. I was quickly picking it up with ease (in fairness I speak Spanish which makes it easier, but still) and was disappointed that I waited until my final semester to enroll myself in a French class, imagining the kind of progress I could have had if I had started in first year.

So the question I am left with, what made my university experience so different from my primary and secondary French learning experience. Is the difference really just a good teacher, or is there something institutional?
 
I had a terrible French teacher in Junior High who belittled me and then was arrested for pedophilia a few years later. Luckily, he didn't diddle me. But he did screw me over with French as I came to hate it and never really recovered (despite the fact that it would help my career quite a bit now).
 
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There's a pretty intensive program in Quebec that a lot of Canadian politicians enroll in. It's completely immersive and you actually live at the course for the month, including sleep. I can't see Dougie up for that though.

Could have done in during the summer break.
 
Why blame the education system? The system offers parents choice of French Immersion should they choose to pursue it - they didn't choose to do so when it is fairly accessible here in the GTA. It's like blaming the education system for not teaching you learn how to play the piano.

AoD

Is there not a serious lack of space in the French immersion system?
Lack of qualified (!!!!) teachers?

It is a problem of the education system.
 
There's a pretty intensive program in Quebec that a lot of Canadian politicians enroll in. It's completely immersive and you actually live at the course for the month, including sleep. I can't see Dougie up for that though.

I'd be down for that just to seriously brush up on and even improve my French, which seems to be forever stuck at some sort of weird intermediate level of proficiency. ?

No one really to speak it with. No reason to write in French. It's a miracle I keep up with reading it and listening to it on the radio. (I went to a hybrid/bullshit half French immersion thingy in school)

Wait, you said politicians go there? Probably costs too much taxpayer dollar for me to afford seeing as all mine goes to them. :p
 
Is there not a serious lack of space in the French immersion system?
Lack of qualified (!!!!) teachers?

It is a problem of the education system.

Agreed, when my kids were in elementary school, very few kids got into French immersion and it was a lottery. It started at one class and kids were bussed in from other school districts. In order to qualify for "late" French immersion students had to be tested and deemed somewhat "gifted" as it was called in those days. Far too few spaces to satisfy the demands.

As adults it becomes far more difficult to learn any language, it requires daily practise and dedication, it might be even more difficult for an adult like Doug Ford who doesn't even comprehend or is able to express himself eloquently in the English language. He will probably never be able to learn any language well enough to use on a governmental level or to debate the opposition. He might however order himself a glass of dollar beer and grin a little wider when he does his photo-opps with his new found payed for access French speaking friends.
 
I did horribly in French in Junior High (but at least it was consistent with the rest of my marks). The problem was verb conjugation and sentence construction, which is big part of any formal language training. We had to understand the multiple grammar concepts that was beyond what was taught in English; not just the words but also the formal terms (simple present, future perfect, subjunctive, etc). I might have better understood the concepts in French if I had been taught what it meant in English.
Out daughter is fairly strong in French but struggles with conversational aspect of it, primarily because of the speed people speak in their native language and the various 'dialects' (urban Quebec, rural Quebec, N/E Ontario, etc.).
 

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