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Premier Doug Ford's Ontario

Richard White

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Agreed, unions should have no input where the facilities should be build, however it should have say in how the workers at those facilities are treated and employment standards are met with regulations. So with -zero- involvement as you are suggesting it would be operating a a non union facility.

Let the ministry of labour handle labour standards concerns.

In North America unions seem to think they have control. Unifor is large enough to assert undue influence and dictate policy.

Tesla and other companies need to be free of outside influence if they are to do well.
 

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Let the ministry of labour handle labour standards concerns.

In North America unions seem to think they have control. Unifor is large enough to assert undue influence and dictate policy.

Tesla and other companies need to be free of outside influence if they are to do well.
AND the ministry is controlled by whomever "governs" in this province, so I have little confidence the Ford Government will care about labour standards. They are well known for lowering standards right across health and safety and shut their eyes to anything that would benefit their wealthy friends and families. Do you really think a non union auto manufacture facility will benefit the consumer? Somehow I can't see them pay the same hourly wage as a union shop or offering them the same benefits.
 

afransen

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While I am all for unions. Unifor should have no say in the placement of the plant. It should also have ZERO involvement in the operations of it.

For once it would be nice to have a world class vehicle plant here without the interference of Unifor and their talking heads.
More that Tesla would want to avoid labour pools with a lot of union activity. Unifor is also notoriously difficult to deal with.
 

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Whether or not a manufacturing facility is unionized is likely irrelevant to most the consumers unless the individual consumer makes the connection relevant to their purchasing decision. . Honda Alliston is a non-union shop and seems to be doing reasonably well employing about 4200 people.

We are not a 'right to work' jurisdiction, but what possible relevance or meaningful input would a union have to the siting of a manufacturing plant?
 

Richard White

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Whether or not a manufacturing facility is unionized is likely irrelevant to most the consumers unless the individual consumer makes the connection relevant to their purchasing decision. . Honda Alliston is a non-union shop and seems to be doing reasonably well employing about 4200 people.

We are not a 'right to work' jurisdiction, but what possible relevance or meaningful input would a union have to the siting of a manufacturing plant?

Lobbying. Unifor would raise a stink if jobs were taken from Oshawa or Windsor in favor of Kitchener.
 

lenaitch

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Lobbying. Unifor would raise a stink if jobs were taken from Oshawa or Windsor in favor of Kitchener.
I'm not sure any jobs would be "taken from" anywhere. Why would they care so long as their membership grows? They already have a local in Kitchener (don't ask me which employer, IDK).
 

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Lobbying. Unifor would raise a stink if jobs were taken from Oshawa or Windsor in favor of Kitchener.
I would have thought it would be hard for any union with members all over the place to argue against jobs almost anywhere. They might lobby for a particular location but I doubt they would then whine about jobs going to X.
 

Richard White

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I would have thought it would be hard for any union with members all over the place to argue against jobs almost anywhere. They might lobby for a particular location but I doubt they would then whine about jobs going to X.

They have been whining for years that Oshawa is losing jobs because the auto plants are shutting down.

Similar things have been said about windsor.
 

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They have been whining for years that Oshawa is losing jobs because the auto plants are shutting down.

Similar things have been said about windsor.
We are saying different things. I am saying that a union - particularly one active in many industries - is not going to whine about jobs going somewhere, even if they are not 'their job's'.

You are saying, correctly, that any union will whine/complain if any of their existing jobs are lost, for any reason
 

afransen

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It's not so much what Unifor thinks. Tesla doesn't like unions, and probably very strongly wants to avoid being unionized by old school combative unions like Unifor. There is lots of old-school union mindset in Windsor and Oshawa, and I expect Tesla to avoid those job markets like the plague.
 

Richard White

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It's not so much what Unifor thinks. Tesla doesn't like unions, and probably very strongly wants to avoid being unionized by old school combative unions like Unifor. There is lots of old-school union mindset in Windsor and Oshawa, and I expect Tesla to avoid those job markets like the plague.

This. This is what I was trying to say earlier.

Unifor would raise hell if a non-union car plant opened in Ontario.

Windsor and Oshawa are union towns. You can't open a car plant within 100 km of them without a union. If you do, Unifor will have something to say.

If I was Tesla I would tell Unifor to shove a sparkplug up their tailpipe.
 

lenaitch

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This. This is what I was trying to say earlier.

Unifor would raise hell if a non-union car plant opened in Ontario.

Windsor and Oshawa are union towns. You can't open a car plant within 100 km of them without a union. If you do, Unifor will have something to say.

If I was Tesla I would tell Unifor to shove a sparkplug up their tailpipe.
Assuming the link that NL posted is accurate - that Tesla is lobbying both the federal and Ontario government - why do you suppose they would they even consider our jurisdiction knowing the labour laws? Although historically Windsor and Oshawa were dominated by unionized workplaces, there is no such thing as a union-friendly or union-free area in Ontario. An employer builds a workplace and a union is free to try and certify its employees. Unifor, which represents all sorts of labour sectors, tried for two years at Honda Alliston.
 

afransen

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Assuming the link that NL posted is accurate - that Tesla is lobbying both the federal and Ontario government - why do you suppose they would they even consider our jurisdiction knowing the labour laws? Although historically Windsor and Oshawa were dominated by unionized workplaces, there is no such thing as a union-friendly or union-free area in Ontario. An employer builds a workplace and a union is free to try and certify its employees. Unifor, which represents all sorts of labour sectors, tried for two years at Honda Alliston.
There is a certain culture of a job market. I am aware of a large employer in the eastern GTA that struggles with Unifor, in an non-automotive sector, being very difficult to work with, to the point they are actively trying to shift operations far away from Oshawa at not-insignificant expense. On the order of a billion dollars.
 

lenaitch

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There is a certain culture of a job market. I am aware of a large employer in the eastern GTA that struggles with Unifor, in an non-automotive sector, being very difficult to work with, to the point they are actively trying to shift operations far away from Oshawa at not-insignificant expense. On the order of a billion dollars.
Ya, I get that. Places like Oshawa have a large, multi-generational history with unions, in particular one union (in its several forms). Some other area might have a potential workforce that is less inclined to drink the Kool-aid', but there is no oasis for either the employer or the union.
 

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