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PM Justin Trudeau's Canada

yrt+viva=1system

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New National Polling data that's got an attention-grabber in it.

Signs that Canadians, and not minority, but a clear majority are losing enthusiasm for ever higher immigration targets, and they are linking those to housing prices.

Article here: (not paywalled:


From said article:

View attachment 439657

Going to Leger's site, we get a bit more info:

View attachment 439658
I’m not surprised one bit. Got to keep real estate prices high and the industry humming. But also the economy/businesses are addicted to low wage employees.
I agree with these people - our plan admits too many people.

I would have had a different opinion if our governments were adept at handling immigration, adding skilled workers, alleviating labour shortages, whilst not fueling a real estate bubble, straining our infrastructure and services, and feeding our corporations demand for cheap bodies.

Alas ...
I too am in agreement that we have a over reliance on chap labour that will only add fuel to our housing issue.

In a coincidence I was just reading two good articles diving into the issue of Canada’s addiction to low wage labour.

How Canada became a hotbed for low-wage foreign labour​


https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-tfw-program-canada-low-wages/

Why Canadian wages never seem to go up​

https://vancouversun.com/opinion/co...wcm/8286fa71-c958-4233-b399-88db1419d107/amp/
 

Richard White

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I agree with these people - our plan admits too many people.

I would have had a different opinion if our governments were adept at handling immigration, adding skilled workers, alleviating labour shortages, whilst not fueling a real estate bubble, straining our infrastructure and services, and feeding our corporations demand for cheap bodies.

Alas ...

For once I agree with you.

We need to get our own state of affairs in order before admitting hundreds of thousands more people. We have a housing crisis in the major urban centers and all these new immigrants will not go anywhere but Vancouver or Toronto.

We need to thin out the herd, put stricter limits on immigration and once we have our own housing issues sorted out THEN let more people in. Toronto and Vancouver cannot handle the influx of people and quite frankly the government is too spineless to force people to go elsewhere in Canada.

I am sorry but admitting as many people as the liberals are suggesting is foolish.
 

afransen

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I don't know if we need to slow immigration, we just need more concerted effort on delivering additional housing. Shortening approval times, reducing wasteful soft costs, allowing lower cost/faster to build built forms in the yellowbelt.
 

Northern Light

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I don't know if we need to slow immigration, we just need more concerted effort on delivering additional housing. Shortening approval times, reducing wasteful soft costs, allowing lower cost/faster to build built forms in the yellowbelt.

I would encourage you to read the two links offered by @yrt+viva=1system just above.

I think they rightly call into question what the play is here.

Immigration as with every other policy idea ever isn't intrinsically good or bad.

Rather, you measure the myriad effects it has, in any given form; and you compare that both to the stated goal(s) and also consider whether the goals themselves are wise.

I won't precis the articles here at any length, but I think they call into question, in part, whether the stated goal (notably economic growth) is served well at all.

The one piece noting Canada is expected to lag in GDP growth per capita almost the entire OECD over the next several decades, with the proposed immigration.

*****

Again, I'm fine w/immigration per se; I just think we need a frank discussion on how much, of what kind (by which I mean economic immigrants, skill set, refugees, TFWs and foreign students) , over what time period, at what cost, and assessing whether what is currently proposed is delivering the desired/stated outcome. My inclination and the evidence may suggest, it is not.
 

Admiral Beez

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I don't know if we need to slow immigration, we just need more concerted effort on delivering additional housing. Shortening approval times, reducing wasteful soft costs, allowing lower cost/faster to build built forms in the yellowbelt.
People will go to where they can find housing and employment. This is a big province and country. We need to build up housing and job centres elsewhere, not just in the GTA.
 

DirectionNorth

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People will go to where they can find housing and employment. This is a big province and country. We need to build up housing and job centres elsewhere, not just in the GTA.
Okay. How would you do that?

Personally, we could have visas tied to employment in a specific part of the country. Example: the North of short of doctors. You're a medical professional who wants to come to Canada? We'll expedite your passage if you agree to live in Flin Flon, Manitoba for 10 years. Or if you want to work in the mines, or so on ...

But who knows if that's constitutional, and Justin definitely doesn't have the gut for that.
 

Northern Light

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Okay. How would you do that?

Personally, we could have visas tied to employment in a specific part of the country. Example: the North of short of doctors. You're a medical professional who wants to come to Canada? We'll expedite your passage if you agree to live in Flin Flon, Manitoba for 10 years. Or if you want to work in the mines, or so on ...

But who knows if that's constitutional, and Justin definitely doesn't have the gut for that.

I take no issue w/your suggestion.

Though, I think we would be well served to address specific issues that crop up time and again with why people don't want to work in these places, voluntarily.

In the case of doctors, here are a few things we hear:

1) If you're the only doctor, or even one of two, the workload is incredible and unending, its a 24/7 on-call, because there is no one else, and the effort of finding a locum (temporary replacement) should you wish to take a vacation, or attend a family
event of significance elsewhere or even do some professional development is huge.

We need to organize group practices in any area that can remotely support same, with a bare minimum of 2 doctors, but ideally 3 or more, so that people (doctors) can actually have some days off, some evenings to themselves and some flexibility to leave the community from time to time.

2) Lack of equipment and resources. So many small communities don't even have a single CT Scanner, and there isn't one for 100km or, perhaps, 1000km. That's nuts. Even if the traffic (use of the machine) doesn't pay for itself, the vast majority of Ontarians/Canadians need to have access to certain basic medical resources. The cost of which could easily be paid for by the simple move to province-wide bulk purchasing of diagnostic imaging machines, instead of going hospital by hospital.
(this applies to other types of equipment/medicine/labs etc. as well, but CT scanners are the single most expensive/high profile example).

3) We also need to address remote specialist appointments, and remote emergency resources for doctors, amongst other things to make medical life easier.

4) Finally, we need to address quality-of-life amenities for physicians where practical. We cannot make Flin-Flon a city with a top tier university or an opera company. But there is lots we can do in terms of providing better
hub-city supports (what can you reach within a 2-hour drive). For truly remote areas, can we, in an environmentally responsible way find other options than fly-in/fly-out, be that a daily train, a year-round access road etc etc.
Also, can we make sure there's a good High School for the kids, and some sort of amenities.

Addressing these issues certainly won't fix everything. If for no other reason than we have an absolute shortage of doctors and nurses in Ontario, even in Toronto, let alone remote places.

The answer to which, apart of attracting the right immigrants, and then actually recognizing their credentials, ahem............... is to have sufficient numbers of medical school spots and residence positions; which despite recent announcements, we remain short of....
 
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Admiral Beez

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How would you entice them? With money? We can't convince our own people to move out of the cities. And I proposed expediting location-based applications, not forcing people there.
When, due to concerns over US expansionism, we needed people to move to western Canada the government offered land as an incentive to both come to Canada and to go to where immigrants are needed. That‘s how my Ukrainian in-laws‘ descendants ended up in Saskatchewan. So, if we want people to immigrate to Canada but not to southern Ontario or southern BC, there must be financial inducements. No one wants to farm, but business grants and loans, pre-arrival government-sponsored job matching, access to affordable housing, and if they have in-demand skills such as medical degrees, pre-arrival review and approval of their credentials combined with job assignments and registration outside of overpopulated regions.

If you’re a medical doctor from India for example, the Canadian embassy evaluates your credentials, and if anything is missing, such as training in some latest tech, arranges for that training before our doctor comes to Canada, and then through Ottawa working with the provinces, our doctor is granted a medical license in an in-demand region and given a doctor job at a hospital in that region. So, our doctor arrives with pre-qualified credentials and an appropriate job in a region where they’re needed. Certainly our doctor assigned to a hospital in Flin Flon Manitoba might pick up sticks and move closer to his Indian cousins in Brampton, ON, but most, if given a good start in Manitoba with provincially-recognized credentials and good employment would likely stay put.

If the Feds and premiers of underpopulated provinces or regions want skilled immigrants, they need to pony up. Or even better, skip any but the most economically and strategically skilled immigrants and offer these incentives to move to underpopulated regions to existing Canadians.

We can't convince our own people to move out of the cities.
What exactly has Canada or the provinces attempted to convince our own people to move out of the cities? You're claiming we've failed when we haven't tried. Instead, looking at Ontario we've economically isolated the areas outside of the golden horseshoe, including canceling rather than improving the ONL rail link. Want to move to Thunder Bay, well there's no way to get there unless you want to drive on some of the shoddiest highways in the province or fly.
 
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afransen

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I don't feel bad about being initially baffled by this accent. I find jamaican accented english hard to understand anyway. Among the hardest for me, even harder than heavily accented Indian/Chinese as I'm so used to hearing those.

 

AlvinofDiaspar

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I don't feel bad about being initially baffled by this accent. I find jamaican accented english hard to understand anyway. Among the hardest for me, even harder than heavily accented Indian/Chinese as I'm so used to hearing those.


I am not really "baffled" by it, just amused how "wired" our notion of pronunciation is vis-a-vis ethnicity.

AoD
 

Northern Light

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A modest, if positive step towards reducing some hardships in Canada, those related to short-term illness or injury.

The Feds announced today that they are extending EI sickness benefits from 15 weeks max. to 26 weeks max.


That really is a positive as lots of people deal w/injury and disease with recovery time going beyond 15 weeks, notably, those recovering from stroke, many types of cancer treatment and even some people dealing with joint surgery (hip/need/shoulder etc).

However, the income replacement rate, for now, remains at 55% which is a hardship even to someone middle class, let alone someone scraping by on minimum wage.

I hope we will see some enhancement there in the next short while. My ideal would be something along the lines of 75%, but with a floor $ amount for low-income earners (could not exceed your normal wage) that would top people up to say 90% for very low income earners.

But any enhancement would be progress.

****

I would then add, general EI once paid 70% income replacement, even the U.S. pays mid 60s, and Canada is way down at 55%.

I think either of a bump in the general replacement rate to 67% or a two-part rate that is higher for the first 90 days then drops down to a lower number would make sense.

People who lose their jobs can't necessarily cut their costs in the first month, nor find any replacement income that quickly; providing a buffer period that's more generous (say 75%) but then dropping down to 60% to encourage people to seek employment would not be unreasonable.
 
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wopchop

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Okay. How would you do that?

Personally, we could have visas tied to employment in a specific part of the country. Example: the North of short of doctors. You're a medical professional who wants to come to Canada? We'll expedite your passage if you agree to live in Flin Flon, Manitoba for 10 years. Or if you want to work in the mines, or so on ...

But who knows if that's constitutional, and Justin definitely doesn't have the gut for that.
The problem is once they become PRs, you can't force people to live somewhere. It would violate charter rights. I believe that most of us are not okay with the government restricting where we can live. I know that I am not.
 

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