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Pickering Airport (Transport Canada/GTAA, Proposed)
- Thread starter wyliepoon
- Start date
MarkBrooks
Active Member
not it’s not leaving the island why should it? but it sill needs to expand beyond the island if it is going to grow. The island is at capacity first, even before Pearson. . GA restrictions come in to effect ( as per the port authoritys master plan) by 2023. to expand they must setup at other airports. Pearson is full so it is out, so Pickering is the logical next step Especially if they want to run jets. Here is a graph from the masterplan showing the wall 2022-2025. this is straight forward. Even by extending the runway it just moves the wall out , it’s just a matter of when Porter expands, not if.
micheal_can
Senior Member
I got an idea... curb GA travel. Only commercial airplanes permitted to land in the GTAA airspace.
Woodbridge_Heights
Senior Member
Porter is not a publicly traded company they are not required to have ever increasing profits every year. As long as the airline makes a comfortable profit for Deluce and his financers they have no motive to expand if said expansion necessitates a move from the island.
Johnny Au
Senior Member
SkyTeam is the other major airline alliance aside from Star Alliance and OneWorld.
kEiThZ
Superstar
Pearson has so much room to grow through upgauging. Just look at all the regional jets and turboprops going to Pearson. We aren't even at the point where Air Canada thinks it's necessary to max out on airplane size. They didn't even order the largest versions of the 737 MAX and 787.
kEiThZ
Superstar
Given where the WestJet-Delta relationship is heading, it's possible that WestJet enters SkyTeam.
Johnny Au
Senior Member
I can see Pickering being a fortress hub for SkyTeam if WestJet were to join SkyTeam and move much of its flights to Pickering.
Non-alliance and OneWorld airlines could be split between Pearson and Pickering.
Non-alliance and OneWorld airlines could be split between Pearson and Pickering.
kEiThZ
Superstar
Sure. But only if Pickering was built with the access infrastructure like Pearson has. Or it turns out like Gatwick and Heathrow where every airline is just dying to get into Heathrow. Only Pickering isn't like Gatwick. More like Stansted. Or worse, Luton.
micheal_can
Senior Member
Or another Mirabel.
Until Air Canada starts buying Airbus A380s, Pearson is not nearing capacity.
Until Turboprops are being removed from most regional flights, Pearson is not at capacity.
Until the UP Express is running double deckers to the Pearson, Pearson is not at capacity.
These tell tails would show that Pearson is at capacity, or nearing it and a second relief airport should be built.
EastYorkTTCFan
Senior Member
Not likely to happen as most airlines have stopped buying them over smaller models instead
micheal_can
Senior Member
Then we are nowhere near capacity.
Tim MacDonald
Senior Member
Can't believe you guys are still at it with this thread but good on ya. A few points:
1. Pickering only works in the next ten years if Pearson is shut down and there is very likely little chance of that.
2. Thinking that asian carriers that fly once a day, or any carrier with once daily operations are going to be enough to open this airport is wrong.
3. Alliance carriers are not going to be enough to open Pickering even if you combine with 2 above.
4. As I said much earlier in this thread, there is still plenty of capacity at Pearson. Yes, it is important to look toward the future but this thing ain't likely to be built in my lifetime.
5. You can't just say that we will upgauge everything. Having worked in airline operations, particularly planning, it doesn't always work that way since the overall network has to be considered and many times frequency is what the customer needs on certain city pairs.
6. Porter's growth can continue with or without the Island using the A220. There are a number of city pairs that they could operate the A220 that don't include Toronto but whether they have the stones and capital to build it out is another matter entirely.
Carry on people.
1. Pickering only works in the next ten years if Pearson is shut down and there is very likely little chance of that.
2. Thinking that asian carriers that fly once a day, or any carrier with once daily operations are going to be enough to open this airport is wrong.
3. Alliance carriers are not going to be enough to open Pickering even if you combine with 2 above.
4. As I said much earlier in this thread, there is still plenty of capacity at Pearson. Yes, it is important to look toward the future but this thing ain't likely to be built in my lifetime.
5. You can't just say that we will upgauge everything. Having worked in airline operations, particularly planning, it doesn't always work that way since the overall network has to be considered and many times frequency is what the customer needs on certain city pairs.
6. Porter's growth can continue with or without the Island using the A220. There are a number of city pairs that they could operate the A220 that don't include Toronto but whether they have the stones and capital to build it out is another matter entirely.
Carry on people.
Woodbridge_Heights
Senior Member
Replace A380 with 777X and/or A350 then. The only comment I will make on this is that the Canadian air travel market probably will never be big enough to demand these super jumbo jets. However the comment still stands, until the 737/320 used on the TOM triangle upgage to a A330 or Boeing new NMA aircraft, and the Toronto-Vancouver flights move over fully to 330/787's than the airport is not at capacity
kEiThZ
Superstar
Launching Pickering would need a critical mass. And I keep harping on this. It needs an anchor carrier. And doesn't look like anybody would be interested.
It's a huge risk. It would basically mean competing against AC and WS either directly (say at a hub like YOW) or indirectly (say a second hub like YHM). And I don't see Bob Deluce being the least bit interested in that when he can milk YTZ for all its worth.
Sure. But there is plenty of room to upgauge a lot of AC's current short-haul network, if they really, really needed slot pairs to open up a new destination. For example, does AC really need 18 flights a day to Ottawa and 20 to Montreal? Is there any loss if they went to 15-17 trips to each? There are some flights to those cities that are 30-40 mins apart. I expect we'll see some of this rationalization as the A223s and MAX 8/9s come into service.
More broadly, AC is also investing serious resources into YUL. And with the Transat merger, YUL will become an even more important hub to AC. I could see it start to rival YYZ as AC focuses the hubs with YUL taking up more secondary European destinations and YYZ becoming more long-haul Asia and Latin America focused.