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Pickering Airport (Transport Canada/GTAA, Proposed)

MarkBrooks

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I politely disagree. You might want to check you numbers on Edmonton (1.3 million people) and Winnipeg ( 1 million pax catchment areas , about a 1/3 the size of Pickerings.) as for Ottawa , We have Carp, Gatineau ,nearby and Montreal Trudeau only two hours drive away, yet it still does a booming business on 5 million travelers a year on a million residents.

The last private design I saw for Pickering was smaller that Ottawa but it is most certainly not a GA airport. Its first phase is designed to handle up 12 million passengers a year.

Note:
I wish we could just get going by building a smaller GA airport and then letting it grow.

The original private not for profit Pickering Airpark proposal was just that. A replacement for Buttonville that over time could grow into something else.
I had a non paying role in that proposal and It’s how I learned of the deeper big money opposition to Pickering, pumping Hamilton, Pearson. In hindsight we should have expected this sort of opposition, given the nature of the Toronto region growth driven politics. Every region, and every business is fighting to steer growth and business its way and no one wants competition from Durham region.

The Airpark Proposal was turned down by transport. We where never given a reason. Although we now know that, both the 2010 capacity study and now the 2018 KPMG capacity study clearly calls for a larger regional airport with a passenger focus.

The numbers say that Pickering will be Canada’s 5 th larger passenger airport within a few years of opening.

Ultimately why shouldn’t Durham region have its own airport? This debate would be over in a flash if we just let the region lease the land. There would be an airport built so fast heads would spin.
A correction on the numbers. The design of the Pickering airport I referred to above is to be build in two phases and is expected to be to handle 15 million passengers and 250k movements.
 

MarkBrooks

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Sometimes during discussions on maximum capacity you can lose sight of the real issue.

Here is yesterday at Pearson, lining up for departure on runway 05 at rush hour.
The weather was perfect.

The controllers are using every trick in the book, visual departures, reduced separation , flow control, the works.

06L&06 right where being used for parallel visual approaches with reduced, stagared arrivals. Something only possible In perfect weather.

Every pilot was on his game, flawless performance despite the pressure and reduced safety margins.

The lineup of jets is more than a mile long, 30 minutes before getting airborne.

This winter will be brutal.

BFC014C4-323A-4B6B-B6DD-D08740B66A1B.jpeg
EFBCA513-7D0A-400F-B01E-55A593C88FEB.jpeg
 

micheal_can

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Sometimes during discussions on maximum capacity you can lose sight of the real issue.

Here is yesterday at Pearson, lining up for departure on runway 05 at rush hour.
The weather was perfect.

The controllers are using every trick in the book, visual departures, reduced separation , flow control, the works.

06L&06 right where being used for parallel visual approaches with reduced, stagared arrivals. Something only possible In perfect weather.

Every pilot was on his game, flawless performance despite the pressure and reduced safety margins.

The lineup of jets is more than a mile long, 30 minutes before getting airborne.

This winter will be brutal.

View attachment 200637View attachment 200638
Been there, done that.

If only there were an existing airport that had the capability to be quickly built out to take demand from Pearson......
 

MarkBrooks

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Been there, done that.

If only there were an existing airport that had the capability to be quickly built out to take demand from Pearson......
If only that airport was in an accessible location, and you know, had enough FUEL infrastructure to support 300 flights a day... if not a pipeline, at least a rail road!

And wouldn’t it be great if half the city’s citizens didn’t have to driver two hours to get there?
 

micheal_can

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If only that airport was in an accessible location, and you know, had enough FUEL infrastructure to support 300 flights a day... if not a pipeline, at least a rail road!

And wouldn’t it be great if half the city’s citizens didn’t have to driver two hours to get there?
A pipeline takes a year or so to build. A rail line is about the same.....

2 hours? From where? When? Less than an hour to the next closet airport to Pearson.


Still under an hour for this one too.


Even this one is under 2 hours....


3 other airports all under 2 hours to drive to. All of them EXIST.

I love it when you try to use misinformation that is easily proven otherwise.
 

treplow

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Unless a verrry long spur is constructed off of the existing CN mainline through the Dundas Valley, I don't see any realistic way of building passenger rail access to the Hamilton Airport. Unless the idea is to have air passengers take a local LRT down a hypothetical Upper James St. line to downtown Hamilton only to transfer to a GO train at West Harbour, which kind of defeats the purpose of Hamilton being a second international airport for Toronto.
 

kEiThZ

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...which kind of defeats the purpose of Hamilton being a second international airport for Toronto.
As though a rail connection has ever been a pre-requisite for an international airport anywhere in North America. Pearson reached 40 million annually without a rail connection. Montreal and Calgary will hit 20 million without a rail connection.

Ottawa has hit 5 million and Edmonton will hit 10 million without a rail connection. Among the six busiest airports in Canada, only two have rail connections, and two more will have them in the next 5 years. There's no reason Hamilton could not be as busy Ottawa or Edmonton with just bus service. Could probably match Calgary with just an LRT connection.
 

treplow

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As though a rail connection has ever been a pre-requisite for an international airport anywhere in North America. Pearson reached 40 million annually without a rail connection. Montreal and Calgary will hit 20 million without a rail connection.

Ottawa has hit 5 million and Edmonton will hit 10 million without a rail connection. Among the six busiest airports in Canada, only two have rail connections, and two more will have them in the next 5 years. There's no reason Hamilton could not be as busy Ottawa or Edmonton with just bus service. Could probably match Calgary with just an LRT connection.
Not a pre-requisite in North America I agree, but if YHM is to complement/compete with Pearson as a true second international airport for the GTA it's going to have to offer a more effective ground transportation method than a bus. People aren't sitting in 1.5 hours of rush hour traffic to get to Ottawa or Edmonton's airports.
 

kEiThZ

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Not a pre-requisite in North America I agree, but if YHM is to complement/compete with Pearson as a true second international airport for the GTA it's going to have to offer a more effective ground transportation method than a bus. People aren't sitting in 1.5 hours of rush hour traffic to get to Ottawa or Edmonton's airports.
You miss the point. The entire West end of the GTA will use a YHM, the same way that the East end of GTA uses YYZ today. And that is what will relieve Pearson.

There's no requirement for passengers from the 416 to use Hamilton for YYZ to be relieved. All that is needed is sufficient displacement to accomodate existing traffic levels at Pearson while still growing regional capacity.
 
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MarkBrooks

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A pipeline takes a year or so to build. A rail line is about the same.....

2 hours? From where? When? Less than an hour to the next closet airport to Pearson.


Still under an hour for this one too.


Even this one is under 2 hours....


3 other airports all under 2 hours to drive to. All of them EXIST.

I love it when you try to use misinformation that is easily proven otherwise.
I love how you use Pearson, an airport on the west side of the GTA as your start point and then somehow claim it as misinformation that it’s a two hour drive from the Easter GTA to Hamilton. Try starting in Oshawa, and in normal traffic, not Sunday at midnight. I have never do this drive in under 2 hours, and yes I have to do it for work.

You are undercutting the argument for Hamilton, an airport we desperately need to get its act together. We need both Hamilton and Pickering to compliment each other and pickup Pearson’s load. Here are the drive distances from each of these airports in 30,60,90 minute circles at 7:am Monday morning in August. This winter is going to be brutal.

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micheal_can

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I love how you use Pearson, an airport on the west side of the GTA as your start point and then somehow claim it as misinformation that it’s a two hour drive from the Easter GTA to Hamilton. Try starting in Oshawa, and in normal traffic, not Sunday at midnight. I have never do this drive in under 2 hours, and yes I have to do it for work.

You are undercutting the argument for Hamilton, an airport we desperately need to get its act together. We need both Hamilton and Pickering to compliment each other and pickup Pearson’s load. Here are the drive distances from each of these airports in 30,60,90 minute circles at 7:am Monday morning in August. This winter is going to be brutal.

View attachment 200860View attachment 200861

If we need Hamilton to get it's act together, why wouldn't you be championing it?

I have been clear that first we build out Hamilton, then we build Pickering. With finite tax dollars, it is the way that makes the most sense.
 

MarkBrooks

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If we need Hamilton to get it's act together, why wouldn't you be championing it?

I have been clear that first we build out Hamilton, then we build Pickering. With finite tax dollars, it is the way that makes the most sense.
I have been... including pointing out the need for taxiways, a improved fuel supply.
Doing the commute Wednesday, which route should I take tomorrow, bite the bullet for a Four hour commute? Or spend $100 on the 407 and do it in 3 hours round trip?
F2911D34-D637-4071-8E4C-2F3AE4C930C2.jpeg
 

micheal_can

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I have been... including pointing out the need for taxiways, a improved fuel supply.
Doing the commute Wednesday, which route should I take tomorrow, bite the bullet for a Four hour commute? Or spend $100 on the 407 and do it in 3 hours round trip?
View attachment 200863
Well, first off, why the 4 hour commute? No, seriously, why would this be a regular occurrence enough that it would be an issue. If your job meant you flew most days and you live far from an airport, that is your stupidity, not the problem of an airport.

Your voice is louder for the Pickering airport being built in farmland that it is for the expansion of Hamilton's. No one in here thinks you even want to acknowledge Hamilton's.
 

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