Overcrowded TTC routes

[spmarshall]

According to the TTC, we have 19 currently overcrowded routes

Routes overcrowded by the end of 2006:
- 29 Dufferin
- 35 Jane
- 37 Islington*
- 39 Finch East^
- 43 Kennedy
- 52 Lawrence*
- 53 Steeles East^
- 58 Malton*
- 86 Scarborough
- 96 Wilson
- 102 Markham Road*
- 108 Downsview
- 116 Morningside
- 129 McCowan North*
- 165 Weston Road North
- 196 York U Rocket
- 504 King
- 506 Carlton

Expected to reach overcrowding by Spring:
- 6 Bay*
- 21 Brimley
- 22 Coxwell*
- 25 Don Mills
- 31 Greenwood*
- 34 Eglinton East
- 36 Finch West
- 40 Junction
- 41 Keele
- 45 Kipling
- 50 Burnhamthorpe*
- 62 Mortimer
- 75 Sherbourne
- 76 Royal York South*
- 79 Scarlett Rd
- 85 Sheppard East
- 87 Cosburn
- 94 Wellesley
- 95 York Mills*
- 100 Flemingdon Park
- 106 York University (local)
- 125 Drewey
- 131 Nuggett*
- 133 Neilson
- 168 Symington*
- 501 Queen
- 502/503 Downtowner/Kingston Rd
- 509 Harbourfront
- 511 Bathurst
- 512 St. Clair

* has yet to "enjoy" low-capacity low floor buses in regular service.
^ has mostly high-floor, lift buses currently (will remain for while)

There's a map here:

From Steve Munro's site

 

[scarberiankhatru]

You're missing some asterisks.

A lot, if not most, of those routes are only overcrowded for very short segments adjacent to subway stations, but the entire routes gets coloured red. This makes the map kind of misleading as to where the problem spots really are. I would looooove to see a map with graded colours to show how ridership is distributed along a route.

Oh, and that map put Bessarion station where Willowdale station would be, which is some subtle wishful thinking.

 

[spmarshall]

That is correct, the map is misleading.

The TTC should toy with regular, scheduled short-turns. For example, on Wilson, a route like this should run from Jane east only, where the overcrowding is.

Dufferin is not so busy north of Eglinton, and the very high frequencies are a joke when the empty 29 buses come into Wilson more often than the SRO 96s and 165s.

I would looooove to see a map with graded colours to show how ridership is distributed along a route.

I would love to see a map like that too. I don't think the TTC keeps track of where passengers get on and off, that's one thing the smart card should do.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

^ Maybe even passenger counts at one or two points along the route would be useful, or where the 50%/75% crowded points, or whatever...just *something* beyond anecdotes.

The Steeles East is listed as overcrowded but it's really only for the stretch until it turns onto Steeles. Every once in a while it'll be so full even right at Yonge & Steeles that people can't get on, but by Bayview or so, the standing crowd starts thinning. It's never ever near crush load once you're east of Don Mills. There's lots of west-end buses I don't take on a regular basis, but through anecdotal evidence the geography of ridership could easily be constructed.

edit - and your "^" amendment referred to the two routes I was thinking of...

 

[socialwoe]

Nice to see prove that alot of East End routes (102, 116, 86) face horrendous capacity problems, some of which are forced to contend with the oldest buses of the fleet.

Dufferin is not so busy north of Eglinton, and the very high frequencies are a joke when the empty 29 buses come into Wilson more often than the SRO 96s and 165s.

That's only because alot of passengers tend to get off once at Lawrence since they're now within 5 mins range of the subway. The remaining passengers thin out once hitting Orfus and Yorkdale Mall.

 

[wyliepoon]

Nice to see prove that alot of East End routes (102, 116, 86) face horrendous capacity problems, some of which are forced to contend with the oldest buses of the fleet.

Morningside and Scarborough have the old buses? I go to Kennedy station every day, and it seems like every bus that enters Kennedy station (with the exception of the Nugget express) is a new Orion low-floor bus.

But your statement is correct if it applies to routes from Scarborough Centre- 129 and 131 are served by mostly GM Fishbowls, as are less busy routes such as 132 Milner and 130 Middlefield.

*****

I wonder if the Spadina streetcar could be considered an overcrowded route. It runs through major trip generators like Chinatown and U of T on its way to the subway.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

I wonder if the Spadina streetcar could be considered an overcrowded route.

From the website: "In this context, “overcrowded†means that the loads exceed the pre-RGS loading standards."

Common sense suggets that any route that routinely leaves people behind at stops or stations might be considered overcrowded, in which case Spadina certainly is among the most crowded routes, even though the map says it's not "overcrowded."

 

[spmarshall]

Ridership might be averaged out versus capacity. Spadina is a really wonky route where packed streetcars can be followed closely by empty ones, and there is little effort a lot of the time to even out the loads.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

Putting more streetcars on Spadina won't help, but putting more vehicles on some of the map's overcrowded routes would help.

But some of the map's "overcrowded" routes make no sense...125 Drewry being one of them.

 

[Sir Novelty Fashion]

I love the fact that Sheppard East is on the map. I thought we had made some capital investments along that stretch...

 

[rbtaylor]

I love the fact that Sheppard East is on the map. I thought we had made some capital investments along that stretch...

Oddly enough, that's why it is on the map.

The capital investment along one portion of that stretch has significantly increased ridership along the other, non-improved, portion.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

The stubway didn't go far enough...

edit - the non-improved portion was always really busy. If not for the addition of the 190 Rocket (which is often overcrowded itself), the Sheppard bus east of Don Mills would be insane instead of just almost overcrowded.

 

[socialwoe]

But your statement is correct if it applies to routes from Scarborough Centre

102 Markham almost always routes the oldest buses. Occasionally so does 54 Lawrence East.

Putting more streetcars on Spadina won't help, but putting more vehicles on some of the map's overcrowded routes would help.

Ever see the 510 replacement buses dispatched during rush hour? That route's a circus and by the time a streetcar reaches College packed like a sardine.

But some of the map's "overcrowded" routes make no sense...125 Drewry being one of them.

Actually it does.

I love the fact that Sheppard East is on the map. I thought we had made some capital investments along that stretch...

I hope that's in reference to the area east of Agincourt as well as the west, if you see where I'm going with this .

The stubway didn't go far enough...

And still never will thanks to the hooky brainwashing spell that's convinced you Kennedy's far east as it should go, East Scarborough be damned!

 

[scarberiankhatru]

"That route's a circus and by the time a streetcar reaches College packed like a sardine."

And right behind that is another packed streetcar, and right behind that one are three streetcars that are almost empty. Then there's 15 minutes where no streetcars come, and the cycle starts over.

"Actually it does."

Drewry is not overcrowded. Besides, overcrowded doesn't mean what one would think it means on that map, it just means "that the loads exceed the pre-RGS loading standards." Spadina's not even on it...