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Ottawa Transit Developments

OCCheetos

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Don't agree. They were supposed to cut headways from 15 to 8 minutes. They spent twice the money the original line cost, ran random service for a few months, then settled on 12 minutes. There used to be 2 vehicles doing the route in 12 minutes providing 4 trips an hour, then 4 vehicles travelling the route in about 16 for 5 trips per hour at twice the operating cost. The average wait was reduced by a couple of minutes and the average trip length increased by the same. For 50 million dollars. Then they scrapped the original vehicles that could have run several years longer. Great value for money.
Calling the 2013–15 upgrades a disaster is not the same as calling the Trillium Line [as a whole?] a disaster.
A marginally longer trip time is not "disastrous".

Also, the original vehicles are actually still sitting in the yard. They intended to sell them for scrap after no one would buy them for other uses, but no one even bought them for scrap.
The story of their retirement pretty much amounts to the fact that it was impossible to get any new ones, and they had already been wanting one to increase the spare ratio anyway.

I'll also just point out that despite the original price tag being $21M, there was additional spending in the 13 years that followed to upgrade the line. Reworking the Ellwood diamond, welding the rail, purchasing the corridor from CP, etc.
The problem is that the line needs to be shut down for very long periods (months to years) to perform any sort of upgrade. They have said that to improve frequency modestly to 10 minutes requires replacement of the Walkley overpass. But there are further complications. Because Walkley Station is being designed as a side station, it will need to be completely rebuilt to accommodate a second track. Yet another lengthy shutdown is inevitable. We simply have a poorly designed line that has not been futureproofed. I am not sure how you gain public confidence if we keep needing to shut down the line every few years. We gained ridership when both Line 1 and 2 were opened at the same time, but that lasted a mere 6 months.
"it will need to be completely rebuilt to accommodate a second track"
Really? Is that really what you think?

Walkley will have side platforms. Why would the other side need to be "completely rebuilt"?
 

lrt's friend

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I have heard this all before yet every single upgrade has required a protracted shut down of the line. For whatever the reason, there appears to be no equivalency between Go expansion projects and what is happening in Ottawa. I would guess that line shutdowns minimize costs and this seems the primary decision maker regarding the Trillium Line. Also there are rock cut widening that will also need to occur and I cannot imagine active service during blasting operations. I guess anything is possible if you throw enough money at it but the history of the line suggests an unwillingness to do that. It is hard to change the perception that this just a student train even though it becomes more than that with each coming year. Nevertheless I remain a skeptic
 

superelevation

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The problem is that the line needs to be shut down for very long periods (months to years) to perform any sort of upgrade. They have said that to improve frequency modestly to 10 minutes requires replacement of the Walkley overpass. But there are further complications. Because Walkley Station is being designed as a side station, it will need to be completely rebuilt to accommodate a second track. Yet another lengthy shutdown is inevitable. We simply have a poorly designed line that has not been futureproofed. I am not sure how you gain public confidence if we keep needing to shut down the line every few years. We gained ridership when both Line 1 and 2 were opened at the same time, but that lasted a mere 6 months.

I have heard this all before yet every single upgrade has required a protracted shut down of the line. For whatever the reason, there appears to be no equivalency between Go expansion projects and what is happening in Ottawa. I would guess that line shutdowns minimize costs and this seems the primary decision maker regarding the Trillium Line. Also there are rock cut widening that will also need to occur and I cannot imagine active service during blasting operations. I guess anything is possible if you throw enough money at it but the history of the line suggests an unwillingness to do that. It is hard to change the perception that this just a student train even though it becomes more than that with each coming year. Nevertheless I remain a skeptic


Going to blow some minds here, but just because we do something does not mean it is technically "required" last time I checked north american transit is still in the stone ages.
 

CapitalSeven

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Walkley station won't need to be completely rebuilt. Essentially they are building one half of a side platform station. Next time out they will add the second track and a mirror image of the current station. But they will need to shut things down for a while to replace the bridge, and likely longer due to equipment working in the area. Not building the whole thing now seems to me the biggest single mistake in the current project.
 

ARG1

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Walkley station won't need to be completely rebuilt. Essentially they are building one half of a side platform station. Next time out they will add the second track and a mirror image of the current station. But they will need to shut things down for a while to replace the bridge, and likely longer due to equipment working in the area. Not building the whole thing now seems to me the biggest single mistake in the current project.
I fail to see why a bridge replacement would need a rail shutdown? Here in Toronto we managed to completely replace the Finch Avenue Overpass on Highway 400, and the only thing that needed to be closed was the highway for a single weekend. Worst case scenerio for a bridge replacement, Heron is shutdown for 2 weeks max.
 

CapitalSeven

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The Walkley bridge spans a gap that is not quite wide enough for two tracks, so some rebuilding on at least one side will need to be done. I think the Carling gap is wide enough for a double track, but not a station spanning the road, which some have called for.
 

ARG1

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The Walkley bridge spans a gap that is not quite wide enough for two tracks, so some rebuilding on at least one side will need to be done. I think the Carling gap is wide enough for a double track, but not a station spanning the road, which some have called for.
I'm not denying this, I'm just asking why you would think that would require any shutdown.
 

drum118

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The Walkley bridge spans a gap that is not quite wide enough for two tracks, so some rebuilding on at least one side will need to be done. I think the Carling gap is wide enough for a double track, but not a station spanning the road, which some have called for.
I'm not denying this, I'm just asking why you would think that would require any shutdown.
They will have to expand the pier supports for the 2nd bridge and shoring is most likely be require. The shoring can be done at night with form work in the day or night time as well pouring concrete.

The line will have to be close when the bridge is place and again could be done during the night.

Placing a 2nd track is a safety issue for crews installing it with the other track in service. Most likely this will be a 7/24 operation or more being done at night where safety is less.. To speed things up, weekend closures could happen as well a week or 2 at times.

Depending on service of the single track, it will slow down work on the 2nd track as the work crew has to stop working until the train pass and this slow down the work to be done.
 

lrt's friend

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With a train on average every 6 minutes (12 minutes in each direction), it is not practical for a 'work crew to stop working until the train passes'.

A bigger issue, as we extend passing tracks requires that the signalling be changed, which also requires a testing period before the line can be recommissioned.

When we compare with GO, think about the several years that it is taking to double track lines without interrupting service. It is possible but it involves a cost in both time and money. This affects the affordability of the project.
 

lrt's friend

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Wow! They must have closed half of the Hunt Club Road Bridge and southbound Riverside Drive for this. The truck is travelling on the wrong side of the road. I actually watched the very first Confederation Line LRV coming into Ottawa passing by my house a few years back. I wish I had a camera in hand at the time.
 

OCCheetos

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Wow! They must have closed half of the Hunt Club Road Bridge and southbound Riverside Drive for this. The truck is travelling on the wrong side of the road. I actually watched the very first Confederation Line LRV coming into Ottawa passing by my house a few years back. I wish I had a camera in hand at the time.
According to the original reddit post, it was turning right onto Riverside from Hunt Club, so it is on the right side of the road.
 

lrt's friend

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According to the original reddit post, it was turning right onto Riverside from Hunt Club, so it is on the right side of the road.
I stand corrected. I look at this again, it is turning southbound onto Riverside, which is heading out of town. A convoluted route to Walkley yards or is the train being unloaded at some southern part of the Trillium Line?
 

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