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Ottawa Transit Developments

OCCheetos

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To bad they couldn't had started to double track in a number of locations, but would be costly and noisy to move the the rock face back. From what I saw the last time we were there, the south end that was single track was being double as well Bayview Station. Could be wrong on what I was seeing.

From construction photos I have seen, signal track where it could be double for the extension.
You can see a the detailed future track alignments here: https://map.railfans.ca/#11/45.3629/-75.6579/-30
At this stage, a single train is only needed regardless of COVID decline as I never saw pack trains during our visits. If it was every 15 minutes before expansion, then headway has increase over the decade from what I remember what it use to be. Getting it down to 12 is a must, other than being a waste going to 30 minutes
Packed trains were a regular occurrence in the morning peak due to the number of students at Carleton trying to make it to their 8:30 classes. Being left behind at Mooney's Bay happened a lot (and presumably at Carling too).
I have complained twice at public meetings about the lack of improvement in service after spending $600M and the lack of coordination of bus schedules with rail schedules. The response I got was unsatisfactory. It became clear after speaking to OC Transpo officials privately following these meetings that they don't have the resources to coordinate schedules. To some degree, bus and train operations are acting like two separate silos at least regarding the Trillium Line. Transfers between trains and buses are unreliable. You can easily end up waiting 28 or 29 minutes for a connecting bus, something I experienced multiple times.
Forget "coordination", bus service just needs to be more frequent and that will take a huge operational investment to achieve. If you're waiting half an hour for a bus because you missed your transfer, the problem is that the bus only comes once every half an hour, not because the transfer wasn't "coordinated".
 

lrt's friend

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Forget "coordination", bus service just needs to be more frequent and that will take a huge operational investment to achieve. If you're waiting half an hour for a bus because you missed your transfer, the problem is that the bus only comes once every half an hour, not because the transfer wasn't "coordinated".
That is not realistic and I was told that bus operations were at capacity based on the budget allocation. Instead, we have been seeing bus service cuts for a variety of reasons, the latest being to operate R1 bus service following the latest derailment. The problem is that a 12 minute train cannot be coordinated with a 30 minute bus reliably. Wouldn't a 10 minute frequency on the train be the simplest solution? But, we know that the city wouldn't spend the money needed to replace the Walkley overpass which would have delivered that frequency. So, the city offers no solution to bad transfer connections.
 

OCCheetos

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That is not realistic and I was told that bus operations were at capacity based on the budget allocation.
...well there's your problem.

The problem is that a 12 minute train cannot be coordinated with a 30 minute bus reliably. Wouldn't a 10 minute frequency on the train be the simplest solution?
And what if a bus leaves one minute early? Or a train is one minute late? You're stuck in the exact same situation. This isn't, and could never be a true solution in an urban transit system.
 

DirectionNorth

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Why not convert the Trillium Line to regular LRT and use the Alstoms?
The Trillium Line has some infrastructure that would need to be replaced in order for electrification, especially the Dow's Lake Tunnel (often mentioned as the largest barrier to double-tracking) and the bridge crossing the Rideau River, which is (I think) above 100 years old.

I think that yard capacity (I'm probably wrong again) would be an issue - currently, the Trillium Line uses the Walkley Yard, but they probably couldn't get approval to keep doing if it was converted to LRT, since that yard is used by freight trains.
 

KevinT

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And what if a bus leaves one minute early? Or a train is one minute late? You're stuck in the exact same situation. This isn't, and could never be a true solution in an urban transit system.

10 minute frequency is still a better transfer match to 30 day to day. What-if scenarios will always happen, but you could at least reliably schedule for a 5 minute wait to buffer away most of those.
 

smallspy

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Why not convert the Trillium Line to regular LRT and use the Alstroms?
Because the tracks that the Trillium Line run on are still regulated by Transport Canada and part of the North American railway network. As such, there are certain standards that the vehicles must maintain - and the Alstom vehicles (in their current form) are not capable of achieving this.

Dan
 

lrt's friend

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Because the tracks that the Trillium Line run on are still regulated by Transport Canada and part of the North American railway network. As such, there are certain standards that the vehicles must maintain - and the Alstom vehicles (in their current form) are not capable of achieving this.

Dan
I don't think this is a barrier. The original North-South project from 2006 (approved and funded) was to provide electric LRT service on the route without problem. Any issues that might have existed were already resolved at that time.
 

lrt's friend

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Because these trains are so much better lol. The bigger question is why can't we put the FLIRTs onto the Confederation Line.
I know electric versions exist, however, are they compatible with the Confederation Line route and station platform designs? The answer is No. All the stations on the Confederation Line are designed for low floor LRVs and Flirt trains are not low floor vehicles. At the very least, every station would need to be substantially changed including those currently under construction. This would mean a lengthy closure of the current Confederation Line, likely to be measured in several months if not longer. Then there is the additional cost of these modifications which will be substantial.

The problem would have been solved by putting compatible trains on the Trillium Line and electrify the line now, while all the stations are being redesigned for Phase 2. That ship has already sailed. We are now set up for permanent incompatibility between the Trillium and Confederation Lines.
 

lrt's friend

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The Trillium Line has some infrastructure that would need to be replaced in order for electrification, especially the Dow's Lake Tunnel (often mentioned as the largest barrier to double-tracking) and the bridge crossing the Rideau River, which is (I think) above 100 years old.

I think that yard capacity (I'm probably wrong again) would be an issue - currently, the Trillium Line uses the Walkley Yard, but they probably couldn't get approval to keep doing if it was converted to LRT, since that yard is used by freight trains.
There is very little freight going through Walkley Yards these days so I think that is a manageable issue. Yes, the Dow's Lake Tunnel and Rideau River bridge are barriers to double tracking but there are many other bridge structures that are problematic and a fairly deep rock cut north of the tunnel that needs to be widened. We are not even double tracking the new Ellwood diamond grade separation now under construction.
 

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