Ontario Northland/Northern Ontario Transportation

[lead82]

Wow, Toronto to Timmins is $345? That's insane. No wonder northerners don't travel. That's an outrageous price to pay for a bus.

 

[Napoleon]

Wow, Toronto to Timmins is $345? That's insane. No wonder northerners don't travel. That's an outrageous price to pay for a bus.

That's around 50 cents per kilometre! Makes the UPX look cheap

 

[ShonTron]

That's around 50 cents per kilometre! Makes the UPX look cheap

That's return. It's closer to 20 cents/km. But yes, as long as Porter (or WestJet Encore) competes with AC Express for flights to the north, it will hurt bus services, though they will always remain necessary for smaller communities, or for travelling within Northeast Ontario.

I used to travel to Sudbury once or twice a year. I often took the local Northland bus over the faster Greyhound bus even though the fares were the same. The Northland buses were more comfortable, less crowded, and stopped at Harvey's/Tim Horton's in Parry Sound, instead of the Greyhound rest stop at McDonald's.

 

[Napoleon]

That's return. It's closer to 20 cents/km. But yes, as long as Porter (or WestJet Encore) competes with AC Express for flights to the north, it will hurt bus services, though they will always remain necessary for smaller communities, or for travelling within Northeast Ontario.

Oops...round trip!

 

[Catenary]

I think ONR should have been operating services like North Bay-Sudbury-Sault but given the recrimination when a Sudbury minister took the axe to "North Bay's ONTC" it doesn't seem like one part of the north likes to have much to do with the other! ONTC's buses go up 11 and up 400 and don't meet again until almost Kapuskasing.

The ONTC announced a 3 day a week pilot program from Sudbury to Ottawa today. There was a call for this after the recent Greyhound cutbacks.

http://www.nugget.ca/2016/01/15/ontario-northland-to-offer-new-bus-route-to-ottawa

 

[SaugeenJunction]

New push to restore Northern rail service
Sudbury Star - October 13th, 2017

• All Aboard Northern Ontario website
• Facebook page

I wonder if this will become a major issue in the north during the 2018 provincial election?

A new advocacy group is campaigning to revive the Northlander passenger train and enhance VIA Rail service in the region.

All Aboard Northern Ontario calls the performance of the cross-country VIA train "dismal," arguing it leaves Ontarians "from Sudbury to the Manitoba border in the lurch."

The Northlander, meanwhile, should never have been scrapped by the Liberals in the first place, according to the group.

They say documents obtained through the Freedom of Information Act "have already produced data that throws into question the wisdom of the train's abandonment by the McGuinty government."

"I'm very excited about this proposal," says Nipissing MPP Vic Fedeli, noting the return of a viable passenger rail service is a "key piece" for the North.

He stresses, however, that a "viable plan" is required, noting the Ontario Northland Railway's former Northlander passenger train is gone.

"The Northlander was stripped by the Liberal government," says Fedeli, suggesting the cars are no longer available and that a new train service be built from the ground up using Northern rail experts.

Eric Boutilier, founder of All Aboard Northern Ontario, said in a release Thursday that now is the time "for a determined and well-researched campaign" to revive the train, which formerly ran from Toronto to Cochrane, with North Bay as a hub.

"After more than two years of working with other groups to bring this about, it has become apparent that polite meetings with the very politicians and bureaucrats who cancelled the Northlander in 2012 result in nothing," he said.

In the weeks ahead, All Aboard Northern Ontario plans to release a data-based proposal for the restoration of the Northlander.

"With a provincial election on the horizon, the issue of the Northlander needs to be placed before the public and the candidates of all political parties," said Boutilier.

Action must also be taken on "the inadequate service provided by VIA, which is deteriorating rapidly," he added.

"We intend to put these and other public transportation issues before the public and our elected officials before the isolation now being experienced by Northern Ontarians grows any worse."

Boutilier pointed to a similar citizen movement in southwestern Ontario that is worthy of emulation.

"The way forward is the one now being pursued by the All Aboard St. Marys citizens committee," he said. "That group has made the future of their region's rail passenger service a major issue with the public, the media and politicians of all stripes. If there is to be any progress in Northern Ontario, that's the route to go - and that is the route All Aboard Northern Ontario is going."

The group will also be investigating and reporting on other Northern transportation issues, including ways to improve intercity bus service in the North.

"The provincial promise to improve intercity bus service in lieu of reinstating the Northlander has produced a reduction in the frequency of those very buses and endless additional studies by Queen's Park," Boutilier charged. "This madness needs to stop if Northern Ontarians - especially seniors, students and medical patients - are not to become even more isolated than they are now."

All Aboard Northern Ontario launched its website and social media pages on Thursday, and encourages the public to review the information it has made available on the Northlander, as well as "the state of the region's precarious transportation network" in general.

Northerners are also encouraged to share stories of how the cancellation of the Northlander has affected them personally.

The website can be found at allaboardnorthernontario.com.

 

[jys]

I wonder if this will become a major issue in the north during the 2018 provincial election?

I'm willing to bet it is.

 

[White Pine]

Hello, It's too bad about the original Northlander (I filmed the last train leave North Bay for a college assignment). I was just wondering...

Is there any merit in the idea of using, say, the Nippon Sharyo DMU's for this service if ridership can't support a big train? ONTC does train refurb so they could tweak the interior quite a bit, plus the train can get fairly long with the C car. Is this a silly idea (not sure about things like the amount of fuel needed over distances, warmth, collisions with moose, etc.

But I thought it might be the economical way to go should the UPX switch to electric and need new vehicles. But maybe if Metrolinx switched to electric they would need a hybrid to get to union? could a diesel train go through and just not use the catenary?

 

[rbt]

Is there any merit in the idea of using, say, the Nippon Sharyo DMU's for this service if ridership can't support a big train? ONTC does train refurb so they could tweak the interior quite a bit, plus the train can get fairly long with the C car.

I though the issue was the large amount of cash going into track maintenance/fees rather than the trains themselves.

 

[dowlingm]

I think the key for any rail restart is for VIA to operate the fleet and for the service to terminate in North Bay. RDCs might work better with a mix of passenger and passenger-baggage cars whereas UPX cars might be better used reinforcing London-Toronto-Kingston.

 

[robmausser]

I think the key for any rail restart is for VIA to operate the fleet and for the service to terminate in North Bay. RDCs might work better with a mix of passenger and passenger-baggage cars whereas UPX cars might be better used reinforcing London-Toronto-Kingston.

Its a real shame VIA lost the bid on all those RDCs that are heading to where...vermont? Or somewhere useless.

I've always thought we needed a Toronto -> North Bay -> Sudbury -> Sault St.Marie -> Thunderbay service.

 

[dowlingm]

Its a real shame VIA lost the bid on all those RDCs that are heading to where...vermont? Or somewhere useless.

I've always thought we needed a Toronto -> North Bay -> Sudbury -> Sault St.Marie -> Thunderbay service.

wouldn’t say VT useless per se. They are working on extending Vermonter to Montreal and Ethan Allen to Burlington. The RDCs are a private initiative, we’ll see where it goes but there is an enthusiasm in that state that isn’t reflected, politically anyway, in places like NH.

 

[Allandale25]

I note in this column that apparently the PCs are promising to bring it back. I haven't had a chance to look at the actual platform to see what the language is. I know there was a policy submitted to "study" the idea.

restoring the subsidy-hog Northlander train to Cochrane ($45 million a year, or about $150 per passenger journey if ridership rebounds to 2012 levels);

 

[micheal_can]

I note in this column that apparently the PCs are promising to bring it back. I haven't had a chance to look at the actual platform to see what the language is. I know there was a policy submitted to "study" the idea.

So is the NDP.

They are doing damage control due to the noise the Northern Ontario Party has been making.

 

[Megaton327]

I note in this column that apparently the PCs are promising to bring it back. I haven't had a chance to look at the actual platform to see what the language is. I know there was a policy submitted to "study" the idea.

Details:

The government should begin the process of bringing back the Northlander. First, that means completing an assessment of what equipment needs to be purchased and what upgrades need to be made to restore the service. Then, it means providing annual funding to make the train a reality. The government should bring back the Ontario Northlander.

Patrick Brown and the Ontario PCs will bring back the Ontario Northlander by the end of their mandate.