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Ontario Northland/Northern Ontario Transportation

micheal_can

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I wonder what kind of bus network we could set up for the money it will take to bring the Northlander back.

A 24 hour train that runs everyday would have less staff than an hourly bus that would be just as expensive. However, in the long run, the bus drivers would mean more costs in pensions and other costs that could be saved by having a train run once a day
 

UrbanJon

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A 24 hour train that runs everyday would have less staff than an hourly bus that would be just as expensive. However, in the long run, the bus drivers would mean more costs in pensions and other costs that could be saved by having a train run once a day
But there would be fewer fixed costs in running busses, less overall running costs. No real need for major capital expenses except for fleet acquisition.

The busses can also run a better route that goes through Barrie and Orrillia where the train can't and must go on the deserted east side of Lake Simcoe.

The thing is that we need reliable and efficient transport and this is a corridor where busses do it best.
 

micheal_can

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But there would be fewer fixed costs in running busses, less overall running costs. No real need for major capital expenses except for fleet acquisition.

The busses can also run a better route that goes through Barrie and Orrillia where the train can't and must go on the deserted east side of Lake Simcoe.

The thing is that we need reliable and efficient transport and this is a corridor where busses do it best.
Why is Toronto building LRTs when buses still can handle the load? The reality is, it isn't that simple. The same can be said here as well. Ever drove highway 11 north of North Bay in winter?
 

UrbanJon

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Why is Toronto building LRTs when buses still can handle the load? The reality is, it isn't that simple. The same can be said here as well.
No, this isn't a valid comparison simply for the fact that busses are up to the task. Demand in these corridors is low because populations are low.

In order to make these services useful to local populations, frequency is important and for you can't adequately achieve that with a train service unless you want to spend a lot and that has a massive opportunity cost.
 

Bordercollie

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I think that a commuter service in eastern Ontario is better suited along the Kingston Sub. Or using this new dedicated VIA corridor but with stops closer together.
You can have local and long distance trains, and they serve different purposes.

There would be demand between Toronto and North Bay if you can get it to be convenient for people inbetween.

I believe better bus service is on the horizon.
 

nfitz

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There would be demand between Toronto and North Bay if you can get it to be convenient for people inbetween.
Would there? North Bay is only a bit bigger than St. Thomas, and already has much better bus service (or any bus service). You'd think there'd be enough demand between St. Thomas and London - about 25 km away.
 

micheal_can

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No, this isn't a valid comparison simply for the fact that busses are up to the task. Demand in these corridors is low because populations are low.

In order to make these services useful to local populations, frequency is important and for you can't adequately achieve that with a train service unless you want to spend a lot and that has a massive opportunity cost.
Frequency is not as important as comfort and reliability. Tell me, how reliable are buses when the highway is closed?
 

DirectionNorth

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Frequency is not as important as comfort and reliability. Tell me, how reliable are buses when the highway is closed?
It becomes a numbers game. UrbanJon seems to have a vendetta against passenger service. I feel that a network of buses would serve the area better. If the conditions for road closures are there, it's likely that the train will be cancelled as well.
 

lenaitch

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If the conditions for road closures are there, it's likely that the train will be cancelled as well.
Not a railroader but I doubt they get held because of weather too often unless it impacts the track bed, or long term closures because of on-track incidents.
 

micheal_can

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It becomes a numbers game. UrbanJon seems to have a vendetta against passenger service. I feel that a network of buses would serve the area better. If the conditions for road closures are there, it's likely that the train will be cancelled as well.

I'll just leave these here.....





Now, please tell me how a train cannot run through snow.
 

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