Ontario Northland and the End of the Northlander

[micheal_can]

They have the money to do the upgrades but don't want to spend their own money. They want the government to fork up the cash.

It's a scare tactic or bargaining tactic.

They are crying wolf, hoping that we do something. Maybe we just don't.

 

[Allandale25]

Opinion: Passenger rail policies: procrastination over progress

Read the full story and comment on BayToday

www.baytoday.ca

 

[Bordercollie]

In another article it said that ONR is doing track and station evaluations on their infrastructure and CN is doing the same on theirs to determine what work needs to be done to bring the train back.

What they need is not full stations but a heated shelter with a kiosk to buy tickets. That would be a good start.

Do they have rolling stock to spare for two trains per day? At least two locomotives and 10 passenger cars with a HEP generator of some kind?

 

[Allandale25]

^ good question on rolling stock

 

[lenaitch]

In another article it said that ONR is doing track and station evaluations on their infrastructure and CN is doing the same on theirs to determine what work needs to be done to bring the train back.

What they need is not full stations but a heated shelter with a kiosk to buy tickets. That would be a good start.

Do they have rolling stock to spare for two trains per day? At least two locomotives and 10 passenger cars with a HEP generator of some kind?

Before it was cancelled they had a combination of existing stations (or at least parts of them) and kiosks/shelters and I assume they would replicate that. Towns like Gravenhurst and Huntsville have standing stations, Bracebridge had a shelter (I assume it had a station at one time - don't know what happened to it). No doubt some have deteriorated since cancellation, Back when it ran they pretty much lived on paper ticketing so had to rely on a local agent. They have pretty much moved to electronic, so I would imagine things like power and connectivity to some the kiosks would have to be considered. Not everyone has a smart phone. I don't remember if there were any old-style flag stops between Washago and Cochrane, I imagine there were some.

 

[ShonTron]

Before it was cancelled they had a combination of existing stations (or at least parts of them) and kiosks/shelters and I assume they would replicate that. Towns like Gravenhurst and Huntsville have standing stations, Bracebridge had a shelter (I assume it had a station at one time - don't know what happened to it). No doubt some have deteriorated since cancellation, Back when it ran they pretty much lived on paper ticketing so had to rely on a local agent. They have pretty much moved to electronic, so I would imagine things like power and connectivity to some the kiosks would have to be considered. Not everyone has a smart phone. I don't remember if there were any old-style flag stops between Washago and Cochrane, I imagine there were some.

I've taken the whole route twice in 2012 before it was discontinued. Every station stop had at least a shelter except Porquis Junction. Many of the stations were not staffed, like South River and Cobalt, but at least the station canopy provided some shelter. There weren't flag stops like you have on The Canadian or the White River RDC, but only a few stations had full services, like washrooms and station attendants, and ONTC ticketing and service staff were only available at Cochrane, North Bay, Timmins (for the bus connection), though contract agents were available at a few other stations, like Gravenhurst and Toronto.

 

[Bordercollie]

I've taken the whole route twice in 2012 before it was discontinued. Every station stop had at least a shelter except Porquis Junction. Many of the stations were not staffed, like South River and Cobalt, but at least the station canopy provided some shelter. There weren't flag stops like you have on The Canadian or the White River RDC, but only a few stations had full services, like washrooms and station attendants, and ONTC ticketing and service staff were only available at Cochrane, North Bay, Timmins (for the bus connection), though contract agents were available at a few other stations, like Gravenhurst and Toronto.

It would also make sense for the bus to use that same location so that it's easier to understand. I know that currently in Huntsville the train station is not used, and a local hotel is used instead. They could serve both but once/if the train is running again, it would make sense to use the same boarding facilities. It would also help to co-ordinate with local transit to create a Hub at the station, or for an additional fee you could have shuttles that will pick you up and take you to the train. I'm sure that you could broker a flat fee with cab companies that could pickup multiple people heading to the train.

 

[ShonTron]

It would also make sense for the bus to use that same location so that it's easier to understand. I know that currently in Huntsville the train station is not used, and a local hotel is used instead. They could serve both but once/if the train is running again, it would make sense to use the same boarding facilities. It would also help to co-ordinate with local transit to create a Hub at the station, or for an additional fee you could have shuttles that will pick you up and take you to the train. I'm sure that you could broker a flat fee with cab companies that could pickup multiple people heading to the train.

The ONTC bus stops at a Service Ontario office parking lot at the far end of Main Street (Muskoka Road 3) near the Highway 11 interchange. It's a long way from the town centre, though there is a limited transit service that stops there too (I think it would be better if it stopped at the A&W or Tim Hortons at the Muskoka Road 2 exit). I don't know if it ever stopped at the train station, but ONTC moved its buses away from other old rail stations where they used to stop at, including Gravenhurst, Temagami, New Liskeard, and Matheson.

 

[micheal_can]

The ONTC bus stops at a Service Ontario office parking lot at the far end of Main Street (Muskoka Road 3) near the Highway 11 interchange. It's a long way from the town centre, though there is a limited transit service that stops there too (I think it would be better if it stopped at the A&W or Tim Hortons at the Muskoka Road 2 exit). I don't know if it ever stopped at the train station, but ONTC moved its buses away from other old rail stations where they used to stop at, including Gravenhurst, Temagami, New Liskeard, and Matheson.

Maybe once the train is back they can start using them. Even better if there were buses going north and south at the same time, or within a reasonable time so that you can use the bus to get to your final destination.

Side note, does anyone know i NB transit services the NB bus/train station?

 

[ShonTron]

Maybe once the train is back they can start using them. Even better if there were buses going north and south at the same time, or within a reasonable time so that you can use the bus to get to your final destination.

Side note, does anyone know i NB transit services the NB bus/train station?

It doesn’t directly. But it’s an easy walk to the Northgate Square transit bus stop though the mall - there’s a tunnel from the ONTC terminal to the mall’s rear, where a door leads direct to the food court.

 

[lenaitch]

The ONTC bus stops at a Service Ontario office parking lot at the far end of Main Street (Muskoka Road 3) near the Highway 11 interchange. It's a long way from the town centre, though there is a limited transit service that stops there too (I think it would be better if it stopped at the A&W or Tim Hortons at the Muskoka Road 2 exit). I don't know if it ever stopped at the train station, but ONTC moved its buses away from other old rail stations where they used to stop at, including Gravenhurst, Temagami, New Liskeard, and Matheson.

One problem with using 'fast food' places is their parking lots and entrances don't always lend themselves to highways coaches (heck, many don't lend themselves to passenger vehicles!) The Tim's at MR2 can be particularly egregious, as many of them are, especially in the summer. Also, people dropping off/waiting for arriving passengers fighting for space with restaurant and drive-thru traffic. I would assume the Commission has some kind of minimum standards for station access (i.e. clearances, sightlines, pedestrian conflict, no reversing, etc.)

The roadway down to the Huntsville train station, along with space to turn around, might also be problematic for highway coaches as it is currently configured.

Maybe once the train is back they can start using them. Even better if there were buses going north and south at the same time, or within a reasonable time so that you can use the bus to get to your final destination.

Side note, does anyone know i NB transit services the NB bus/train station?

Perhaps. Many are either municipally or privately owned now and they would have to negotiate with the owners. Quite frankly, not many communities along the route have municipal transit and I'm not sure there is much market for intermingling ONR rail and bus schedules.

Re North Bay transit - not directly. A route goes to the Northgate Mall which is on the opposite side of the tracks from the ONTC station, and there is a pedestrian tunnel under the tracks. I'm not sure how convenient it is to schlep you luggage into the mall, through the mall, then back outside again and through the tunnel. I don't know why they don't service the ONTC station directly (or if they ever did); perhaps the bus/train frequency doesn't justify transit frequency service.

 

[lenaitch]

It doesn’t directly. But it’s an easy walk to the Northgate Square transit bus stop though the mall - there’s a tunnel from the ONTC terminal to the mall’s rear, where a door leads direct to the food court.

Sorry, your post wasn't showing when I typed mine, and I had to interrupt to tend to a barfing dog.

 

[micheal_can]

It doesn’t directly. But it’s an easy walk to the Northgate Square transit bus stop though the mall - there’s a tunnel from the ONTC terminal to the mall’s rear, where a door leads direct to the food court.

Maybe the city could run the bus that goes along Seymour into it..

One problem with using 'fast food' places is their parking lots and entrances don't always lend themselves to highways coaches (heck, many don't lend themselves to passenger vehicles!) The Tim's at MR2 can be particularly egregious, as many of them are, especially in the summer. Also, people dropping off/waiting for arriving passengers fighting for space with restaurant and drive-thru traffic. I would assume the Commission has some kind of minimum standards for station access (i.e. clearances, sightlines, pedestrian conflict, no reversing, etc.)

The roadway down to the Huntsville train station, along with space to turn around, might also be problematic for highway coaches as it is currently configured.

Which brings me back to returning a stop at the stations, if they still are there. Things can be rebuilt to be more friendly for buses.

Perhaps. Many are either municipally or privately owned now and they would have to negotiate with the owners. Quite frankly, not many communities along the route have municipal transit and I'm not sure there is much market for intermingling ONR rail and bus schedules.

Re North Bay transit - not directly. A route goes to the Northgate Mall which is on the opposite side of the tracks from the ONTC station, and there is a pedestrian tunnel under the tracks. I'm not sure how convenient it is to schlep you luggage into the mall, through the mall, then back outside again and through the tunnel. I don't know why they don't service the ONTC station directly (or if they ever did); perhaps the bus/train frequency doesn't justify transit frequency service.

AFAIK they never did. I know the city has reconfigured their transit a few times since I last used it, over 10 years ago. I just wondered if they had made that change.

 

[Catenary]

Maybe the city could run the bus that goes along Seymour into it..

AFAIK they never did. I know the city has reconfigured their transit a few times since I last used it, over 10 years ago. I just wondered if they had made that change.

Transit volume at the bus station is very low. Many people take taxis or have someone pick them up with luggage.

The routes on Seymour also serve the mall, as do a number of other routes for much better connectivity from there.

 

[micheal_can]

Transit volume at the bus station is very low. Many people take taxis or have someone pick them up with luggage.

The routes on Seymour also serve the mall, as do a number of other routes for much better connectivity from there.

Gong green means that taking transit over a taxi or someone else driving them is better. So, having the bus come into the station to pick up people is a good first step.