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Ontario Northland/Northern Ontario Transportation

HighIron905 said:
Another update. Talks are progressing well for Huron Central. Everyone seems to be at the table now.

Also, the long suspected rumour that CN is looking to sell the ACR is all but confirmed. CN has reportedly issued notice to employees that they will seek to sell the line once their commitment with the Agawa Canyon Tour Train is completed in two years.

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By then the HCR mess will have settled. Maybe this will then extend to the ACR.
 
HighIron905 said:
Another update. Talks are progressing well for Huron Central. Everyone seems to be at the table now.

Also, the long suspected rumour that CN is looking to sell the ACR is all but confirmed. CN has reportedly issued notice to employees that they will seek to sell the line once their commitment with the Agawa Canyon Tour Train is completed in two years.

Click to expand...

I dont think the local tourism sector would let that happen, someone will take it over.
 
I'm a tad surprised at CN's public musing about selling the Soo sub so long as the ferrochrome refinery is on the table. Assuming it goes ahead it will be rail dependent and represent significant traffic, at least s/b from Oba.
 
I am guessing they are making it known as they don't see the value in it. Depending on how HCR goes, this could be a way fro CN to offload something that is no longer worth keeping.
 
micheal_can said:
I am guessing they are making it known as they don't see the value in it. Depending on how HCR goes, this could be a way fro CN to offload something that is no longer worth keeping.
Click to expand...

And that's what is curious to me. With the tonnage necessary to feed the refinery I would think the sub would indeed be profitable. Without rail from N/W Ontario the refinery will be a non-starter. I don't know the economics but if they are thinking of running it to Sudbury then handing it off to whoever owns HCR seems more costly and less revenue for them. No doubt time will tell. I'm actually not 100% convinced it will end up in the Soo despite Noront's announcement. There is a lot of local opposition including from across the border which could complicate things.
 
I feel confident that the ACR is going to survive. Presumably, this is one of the lines CN referred to when they announced they wanted to sell 850 miles of routes in Wisconsin, Michigan and Ontario. They mentioned that they wanted to spin these routes off to shortlines.

I could see this being the next expansion for ONR. Local ONR management could facilitate the return of the Sault-Hearst passenger train and help with freight volumes. The ACR was just something CN had to shoulder as part of the larger WC deal. They didn't want it, and they neglected it.

On the bright side, we have two years' notice. I am hopeful to see what will come of this.
 
Mentioned in the budget document (PDF available here) under the "other legislative changes" section:

Amendments to the Ontario Northland Transportation Commission Act to enhance ministerial authority and address housekeeping items. A number of oversight and approval functions currently exercised by the Lieutenant Governor in Council would be transferred to the Minister of Transportation. The Minister of Transportation would be given authority to issue binding directives to the Ontario Northland Transportation Commission. Provisions respecting the audit of the Commission would be modernized.
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- page 237
 
HighIron905 said:
I feel confident that the ACR is going to survive. Presumably, this is one of the lines CN referred to when they announced they wanted to sell 850 miles of routes in Wisconsin, Michigan and Ontario. They mentioned that they wanted to spin these routes off to shortlines.

I could see this being the next expansion for ONR. Local ONR management could facilitate the return of the Sault-Hearst passenger train and help with freight volumes. The ACR was just something CN had to shoulder as part of the larger WC deal. They didn't want it, and they neglected it.

On the bright side, we have two years' notice. I am hopeful to see what will come of this.
Click to expand...

I suspect you may be right. I'm not exactly clear why CN wanted the WC in the first place, except that it gave them connection between Duluth/Superior and Minneapolis/St. Paul with Chicago. The rest I suppose came with package. A lot of the US branch routes, particularly those servicing the Michigan UP primarily served iron ore plus some forestry, and the ore has been working out for years, much like ACR had with Algoma Steel.

Allandale25 said:
Mentioned in the budget document (PDF available here) under the "other legislative changes" section:
- page 237
Click to expand...

This moves oversight authority away from Cabinet to the MTO, which should streamline things and make decision-making more dynamic, but it still is a commission of government which means to me any initiative will still be a mixture of financial and public policy. I'm not exactly sure how to read all the tea leaves but it does seem positive.
 
lenaitch said:
I'm not exactly clear why CN wanted the WC in the first place, except that it gave them connection between Duluth/Superior and Minneapolis/St. Paul with Chicago. The rest I suppose came with package. A lot of the US branch routes, particularly those
Click to expand...

That's it. If they didn't have the connection between Chicago and Duluth they would have been at a huge competitive disadvantage to CP. Even then, they have had to put a lot of money into upgrading the old SOO route with CTC, new sidings etc. They took what they could get and what they got came with a lot of branchlines they weren't prepared to serve properly. I will give them credit though, because at least they are seeking to bring in shortline partners.

Allandale25 said:
Hope on the horizon?

www.sootoday.com

Sudbury company seeks Ontario Northland partnership to maintain Huron Central Railway service

Drop service date for Huron Central Railway looms
www.sootoday.com www.sootoday.com
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I really wonder if we could just cut Milman out of the picture and just go all in with ONR, even though in the short term, going with Milman would make it easier. The problem is that we don't know what Milman wants to do with ONR because they haven't said a thing about what kind of partnership they would want.

The upcoming challenge is who will be running the line. It would seem that government is mostly dealing with G&W. Quite frankly, a lot of people want them gone, and I am inclined to agree. It would be unwise to not at least consider other operators while we have the opportunity.
 
HighIron905 said:
That's it. If they didn't have the connection between Chicago and Duluth they would have been at a huge competitive disadvantage to CP. Even then, they have had to put a lot of money into upgrading the old SOO route with CTC, new sidings etc. They took what they could get and what they got came with a lot of branchlines they weren't prepared to serve properly. I will give them credit though, because at least they are seeking to bring in shortline partners.



I really wonder if we could just cut Milman out of the picture and just go all in with ONR, even though in the short term, going with Milman would make it easier. The problem is that we don't know what Milman wants to do with ONR because they haven't said a thing about what kind of partnership they would want.

The upcoming challenge is who will be running the line. It would seem that government is mostly dealing with G&W. Quite frankly, a lot of people want them gone, and I am inclined to agree. It would be unwise to not at least consider other operators while we have the opportunity.
Click to expand...

The difficulty I have with Milman is, to the best of my knowledge, they have no experience or history as a rail line operator or even with maintenance of way, so I'm not sure there would be any great near-term benefit. I would think that, given the go-ahead, ONR could be up and running faster. As well, their Diesel Electric Services are in direct competition with ONTC Remanufacturing and Repair Division. I agree that there is no clarity what they envision as a partnership with ONR.

I imagine the government is dealing with G&W because they hold the contract with CP and doesn't want to be seen as interfering so long as they are still operating, as opposed to the Omnitrax situation with the Churchill line where they essentially abandoned their obligations.
 
HighIron905 said:
The RoW is all municipally owned. The Newmarket Sub is owned by Metrolinx. These aren't CN's assets to sell.
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lenaitch said:
The difficulty I have with Milman is, to the best of my knowledge, they have no experience or history as a rail line operator or even with maintenance of way, so I'm not sure there would be any great near-term benefit. I would think that, given the go-ahead, ONR could be up and running faster. As well, their Diesel Electric Services are in direct competition with ONTC Remanufacturing and Repair Division. I agree that there is no clarity what they envision as a partnership with ONR.

I imagine the government is dealing with G&W because they hold the contract with CP and doesn't want to be seen as interfering so long as they are still operating, as opposed to the Omnitrax situation with the Churchill line where they essentially abandoned their obligations.
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We have seen what someone with experience can do - Nothing. Maybe the lack of experience and working with ONR will work well.

Bordercollie said:
When the contract ends can't they just give it to ONR? The province is the regulatory authority right?
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Wrong. All railways are federal jurisdiction. ONR is an owner and operator of a line. Transport Canada is the regulator.
 
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