Ontario Northland/Northern Ontario Transportation

[Admiral Beez]

After months of effective radio silence on the Northlander from the province, it's not surprising to see hack job studies like this bubble to the surface, which pull magic tricks like taking all of Northern Ontario's population density (1 person/km) as an argument for density being too low to support rail service, ignoring that a passenger route serving Huntsville, Gravenhurst, and North Bay isn't exactly the same thing as covering the entire North up to Moose Factory in passenger service. No doubt it will be one of the "studies" cited when the province yet again refuses to reinstate the Northlander.

Covid has cleaned out the Queens Park kitty. There’s no money for under utilized northern rail projects.

 

[micheal_can]

Northern passenger rail makes no sense – report

www.nugget.ca

Why would Vic not be around for a comment?

 

[tmlittle]

Glad to see Transport Action Ontario weighing in on this.

 

[micheal_can]

Passenger rail backer wants access to Ontario Northland's business plan

Rail advocate Éric Boutilier determined to stay on top of the provincial government's campaign promise to restore passenger service

www.northernontariobusiness.com

Got to love when the government blocks public access to information..

 

[lenaitch]

I'm not surprised that a request to access a Commission's report to Cabinet was refused - it's an exemption under Ontario's FOI legislation.

 

[Allandale25]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1300886031126990849

 

[ShonTron]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1300886031126990849

That takes over yet another Kasper route.

 

[Allandale25]

https://www.facebook.com/302462679902203/posts/1732364790245311

 

[Allandale25]

Cool to see.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1306515326721503233

 

[KevinT]

Given the height and width of the things trains haul, it astounds me that standard gauge is so narrow.

 

[lenaitch]

Ontario Northland has quite the opportunity in front of them right now. With the Huron Central in need of funding and CN looking to sell the Algoma Central, now would be a great time to expand to Sault Ste. Marie.

That would be great - if it wasn't a Commission of Government. Perhaps the government could be persuaded that, if it has to toss public funds to keep HCR alive, it might as well toss it in-house by taking over the lease.

I wasn't aware that CN was shopping their Soo sub. It is actually surprising since the announced ferrochrome smelter in SSM will generate a lot of traffic (assuming it goes through). Not a lot on on-line revenue since AOD shut down their iron mine in the 90s; perhaps a shorter route to the US for forest product from the Hearst area, but at the cost of the rest of its network. I can see an eventual abandonment application for the stretch between Oba (CN E-W mainline) and Hearst

 

[micheal_can]

Ontario Northland has quite the opportunity in front of them right now. With the Huron Central in need of funding and CN looking to sell the Algoma Central, now would be a great time to expand to Sault Ste. Marie.

Realistically, the HCR line will shut down. It would be the only way to then see ONR take over it.

That would be great - if it wasn't a Commission of Government. Perhaps the government could be persuaded that, if it has to toss public funds to keep HCR alive, it might as well toss it in-house by taking over the lease.

I wasn't aware that CN was shopping their Soo sub. It is actually surprising since the announced ferrochrome smelter in SSM will generate a lot of traffic (assuming it goes through). Not a lot on on-line revenue since AOD shut down their iron mine in the 90s; perhaps a shorter route to the US for forest product from the Hearst area, but at the cost of the rest of its network. I can see an eventual abandonment application for the stretch between Oba (CN E-W mainline) and Hearst

Many want to think the Ferrochrome smelter will be a windfall. Yes, it will add carloads, but it may not add as much as we may want to believe.

 

[lenaitch]

An expansion of ONR is not without precedent, given the purchase of the NTR line to Hearst from Cochrane, and it would make a lot of sense for the Ontario government to be considering this given that ONR would give them better oversight into their investment into the Sault to Sudbury rail line. I believe that it is unlikely that the HCRY corridor will close as there has been significant investment into the region and several customers of the railway recently. The real question is what form the deal will take. Will governments once again gamble on G&W with no guarantee that this won't happen again 10 years from now?

As for the details about the Soo sub, well they are scarce, but CN has announced that they are looking to sell 850 miles of low density trackage in Wisconsin, Michigan and Ontario to shortlines. This is focused on the non core routes from Wisconsin Central. I personally can't see the section between Oba and Hearst being abandoned given that it is a significant interchange point and ONR would likely object to such an application.

Oh I agree. I suppose it was the words used giving some readers the impression that this could be a decision of the ONTC Board. The acquisition of the former CN Kap sub was likely cheaper because it was an abandonment rather than the sale/lease of an active line but, having said that, I don't know.

Many want to think the Ferrochrome smelter will be a windfall. Yes, it will add carloads, but it may not add as much as we may want to believe.

I don't think we have seen anything about tonnage, and not likely to for a long while. I don't know anything about ferrochrome smelting but if it is like any other smelting process it is a continuous operation that requires continuous input. How much tonnage that will require depends on factors such as the capacity of the smelter and grade of the ore body. Publicly they are saying 300-500 permanent jobs, for whatever that is worth. Perhaps not a windfall but not chump change in a town that has had its hard times over the past several years. Note that there are still environmental and First Nations objections.

 

[micheal_can]

Would it really be that bad for the Huron Central Railway to be abandoned? The real question is that would an extra 40,000 trucks on the highway per year be as bad as people say it will be? That's only about 109 extra trucks per day. Doesn't seem that bad. If the railway doesn't pay for itself, why prop it up when there is a viable alternative. The $40 Million that they are asking for could go into improving the highway. I think Blind River had the right idea pulling their support.

Blind River pulls pin on support for Huron Central funding bid

The railway is seeking provincial and federal funding to operate the 283-kilometre rail corridor between Sault Ste. Marie and Sudbury

www.sootoday.com

On a highway like the 401, it is very little, but on a highway like 17, its almost 1/10th of the daily traffic. Add 10% more traffic to the 401 and it is even worse and even longer gridlock.

 

[lenaitch]

^ Additionally, Hwy 17 goes through the middle of every town that is along its route, except Espanola, which is split by Hwy 6. I doubt $40M would make much of a dent towards improvements to ~300km of highway.