Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s

nfitz said:
I'm not sure it would save much money. There's no longer any availability of ROW in the railway corridor, so you'd either have to tunnel beneath it, or beneath Front - which I doubt would be any cheaper.
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Who says there's no ROW availability? It's extremely wide from Union to the Don. Look here for a pic. There's room for 4 more tracks or so. West of Spadina if there's land for the Front Street Extension, there's land for 2 subway tracks.
 
CDL.TO said:
Who says there's no ROW availability? It's extremely wide from Union to the Don. Look here for a pic. There's room for 4 more tracks or so. West of Spadina if there's land for the Front Street Extension, there's land for 2 subway tracks.
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Rather than using available track for intercity service, or regional service, you're going to waste what little is available for a local subway? I don't think Metrolinx is going to go for it. It's one of these short-sited decisions that regional agencies are suppose to stop.
 
nfitz said:
Rather than using available track for intercity service, or regional service, you're going to waste what little is available for a local subway? I don't think Metrolinx is going to go for it. It's one of these short-sited decisions that regional agencies are suppose to stop.
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First you said there was no space, and now you say that the space that is there is needed for some mystery service? Which is it?

There are six tracks there already. I said there's room for 4 more. How many tracks do mainline services need? There no room for more than 4 tracks on the Kingston Sub and 2 tracks on the Richmond Hill line. Where will these imagined tracks that are needed for expansion for?
 
Hey guys if we really want this to get built we have to show our politicians that we care and that we want them to fight for this. I propose everyone start e-mailing or calling their city councilors including the mayor, also lets start e-mailing Metrolinx and even the Premiers office. We need to show them we care about this
 
CDL.TO said:
First you said there was no space, and now you say that the space that is there is needed for some mystery service? Which is it?
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Both. There is no space west of Union. There's a bit of space east of Union between Jarvis and Cherry (east of Cherry they have added both the new GO yard, and the third track); there is no space east of the Don (well, I suppose if you all 3 existing tracks, and rebuild everything, you could squeeze in a 4th track, but the width would never accomodate 5 tracks.

The railway alignment is clearly off the table. Let's be realistic here.
 
nfitz said:
Both. There is no space west of Union. There's a bit of space east of Union between Jarvis and Cherry (east of Cherry they have added both the new GO yard, and the third track); there is no space east of the Don (well, I suppose if you all 3 existing tracks, and rebuild everything, you could squeeze in a 4th track, but the width would never accomodate 5 tracks.

The railway alignment is clearly off the table. Let's be realistic here.
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Strawmen?

No one has ever proposed running it in the rail corridor just west of Union. That's why people refer to a "Front Street" alignment in this area. West of Bathurst there is plenty of plenty of space, where they planned to build the FSE.

No serious plans have ever proposed running it in the rail corridor east of the Don. There is no space there and people know it.

The "rail corridor" (aka. Front Street/Rail Corridor, as explained in unimaginative2's most recent post in this thread) alignment refers to the area between Bathurst and Exhibition, and between Church/Jarvis and the Don. There is plenty of space in these sections, which together could save us from having to build over 3.5km of tunnelling and about 3 underground stations.

Have you even looked at the maps posted here, in the National Post articles, or on Transit Toronto?
 
CDL.TO said:
No one has ever proposed running it in the rail corridor just west of Union. That's why people refer to a "Front Street" alignment in this area. West of Bathurst there is plenty of plenty of space, where they planned to build the FSE.
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For few blocks to Dufferin ... though there was a quite a serious proposal to go back to the rail alignment - http://transit.toronto.on.ca/images/subway-5113-02.gif dead now given the recent Metrolynx proposals.

CDL.TO said:
No serious plans have ever proposed running it in the rail corridor east of the Don.?
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Except of course for the serious plan to run it to Degrassi: http://transit.toronto.on.ca/images/subway-5113-01.gif

CDL.TO said:
Have you even looked at the maps posted here, in the National Post articles, or on Transit Toronto?
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Have I looked at the maps on Transit Toronto? No ... never ...
 
Posted by Cowpie in the Yonge Subway extension thread:

http://www.torontosun.com/news/toron...00081-sun.html

Metrolinx stands pat

By BRYN WEESE, SUN MEDIA

Last Updated: 30th January 2009, 4:25am

Metrolinx's top boss says he isn't keen to re-open the newly-minted regional transportation plan anytime soon, despite a move by Toronto city council to change its priorities.

"All of the municipalities had lots of chances for input. I'm not especially anxious to reopen the plan at this point," said Rob MacIsaac, chairman of the Metrolinx board.

"Our plan is not written in stone, but it shouldn't be written in plastic either. There has to be some certainty, so I think for at least the next five years we're going to carry on and -- when it's time to review the plan -- we'll take a look at all these requests," he said.
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If the actual routing turns out like this, I will be disappointed. Only putting one station in between the Don (Atiritari Stn.) and the core (Union Stn.) just seems like a tremendous waste. I get that stations cost money, but this area is hugely dense and has oodles of development potential. Turning this into some kind of glorified GO service would be a bad, bad idea. Stop spacing at 500-600, at least west of the Don, should be a given. This also better make good provisions for making this stations accessible to the waterfront.
 
nfitz said:
For few blocks to Dufferin ... though there was a quite a serious proposal to go back to the rail alignment - http://transit.toronto.on.ca/images/subway-5113-02.gif dead now given the recent Metrolynx proposals.
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There is not a finalized route (I assume you're referring to Metrolinx's Queen Street subway plan). Hence why we're even having this discussion. Funny that you keep claiming that there's no space, and when I point out that there is, you simply shift your argument to something else.

nfitz said:
Except of course for the serious plan to run it to Degrassi: http://transit.toronto.on.ca/images/subway-5113-01.gif

Have I looked at the maps on Transit Toronto? No ... never ...
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I still wonder if you've looked at the map because that map does not show it running to DeGrassi, which starts at Queen, as you claim. It shows it running tunneled under Eastern. And for it to enter a tunnel under Eastern, it would have to leave the rail corridor just after the Don, as I said earlier.

Why are you so determined to make up false arguments about infeasibility? I don't understand what you could possibly be trying to accomplish.
 
An alignment through Union has the city's best interests in mind, with both long-term and short-term benefits. It's called Union for a reason. Areas between Front and the lake are rapidly being filled in with skyscrapers and jobs and residents and transit to most of this zones is currently quite bad. A through-Union alignment would effectively serve everything between Queen and the Lake, and if the area outside the YUS doesn't already generate more trips than what's inside, it will eventually...downtown is growing closer to the lake.

Going through Union means you're not necessarily replacing any of the streetcar lines, just supplementing them, which leaves those corridors open for future projects, such as a Queen subway. Realistically, a DRL that ran north of Union would be the last major transit infrastructure downtown Toronto would ever see and all other transit lines would either not be improved much or be removed. I think that a Queen alignment would decimate service on both King and Dundas, which may or may not be a good thing.
 
I am optimistic about Metrolinx...I think that if the government of the city that underpins the entire regional transit system makes clear it wants the plan changed, the plan will be changed. The cat's out of the bag on this one, and judging by the enthusiasm on Council I don't think the City is going to co-operate with the Richmond Hill project without some action on the DRL. If Metrolinx wants to satisfy York, it will have to satisfy Toronto, too.

Of course, this whole thing could have been avoided if the mayor and TTC chair had simply included the DRL in their original plans, as lots of people thought they should have. I don't blame some of the Metrolinx board for being somewhat sceptical of this sudden head-slapping shift in favour of a piece of infrastructure in which the Toronto government has shown no interest for two decades.
 
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