Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s

AlvinofDiaspar said:
I don't think you'd shave that much time off to make a difference - but in any case there is no reason why an extension can't happen relatively quickly (other than it being an artificial delay). Certainly I think there is a better case for extending it all the way to Sheppard than a certain western extension that we are embarking on *cough cough*

AoD
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Come on. Based on the recent history, no way the extension will open sooner than 20 years after Phase 1.

Technically, no obstacles to begin designing the extension while Phase 1 is being built (well, other than the capacity of the central segment). But, the mandatory fights over the priority corridors, the route choice, tunneled vs elevated etc .. plus a long wait for the actual funding .. 20 years may be an optimistic prediction.
 
Rainforest said:
Come on. Based on the recent history, no way the extension will open sooner than 20 years after Phase 1.

Technically, no obstacles to begin designing the extension while Phase 1 is being built (well, other than the capacity of the central segment). But, the mandatory fights over the priority corridors, the route choice, tunneled vs elevated etc .. plus a long wait for the actual funding .. 20 years may be an optimistic prediction.
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That maybe, but the hard part of the build (through the core) is already done - building extensions is something we are "relatively" good at if the demand exist.

AoD
 
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Even if there are no drivers they’ll still put one in with their obligatory bowl of soup.

They should also incorporate those escalators that only move when you stand on it.
 
allengeorge said:
I’m also a little curious about why the RFQ for the Northern Civil Section is going out so late.
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It will include East Harbour station, which effectively requires advanced design of both Ontario Line and GO Expansion.

That said, the downtown interchanges will take several years longer to construct than the northern section, so tendering the northern section later isn't unreasonable.
 
turini2 said:
Looking at those Rolling Stock providers - I thought I'd provide some visual and international context of similar projects that Hitachi, Siemens and Alstom have done in recent years.

Hitachi bought Ansaldo Breda in 2015, and in doing so gained the very successful "Driverless Metro" model, currently in use in 9 cities around the world. Best example of the recent Hitachi Driverless Metro would be Copenhagen - the very successful automated Metro there runs underground, at grade and elevated. It's 2.65m wide, 3 cars, 40m long. There's some great time-lapse videos online! As a sidenote, the design of the Copenhagen Metro is very nice - and looks very good for nearly 20 years old in some places!

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Siemens uses their Inspiro platform, currently in use in 6 cities around the world I believe. Best example I can think of is the Kuala Lumpur Kajang MRT line, which uses 3.1 m wide, 90m four car driverless trains.
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Alstom uses their Metropolis platform, currently in use in 22 cities around the world. Examples relevant include the Singapore Circle and North East lines - the Circle line uses 3.2 wide, 70m long, 3 car driverless trains.
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Hope this provides some context for some of you!
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All these examples use 3rd rail though. OL will be pantograph
 
robmausser said:
All these examples use 3rd rail though. OL will be pantograph
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You forget that the Alstom Metropolis also has catenary power models.

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The Hitachi Rail Driverless Metro does have a catenary powered model in use in Rome.

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I don't know about the Simenens Inspiro but I think those trains would be nice for the 82 new subway trains for Line 1 and 2.
 
Tuck said:
Huge, huge relief to see them reaffirm 100m platforms, even if they may start with 80m trains.

Certainly would have preferred the full capacity rockets at 150m, but I was afraid they'd do something stupid and go with something really short.
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I’d hold back my relief until this thing actually starts to get built. And maybe not even then. What are we looking at now? 3 years at best until shovels are in the ground? 10+ until it’s completed or at all if the next government doesn’t cancel it and start over?

If you’ve been on this forum for 20 years as some of us have, you build up a good scoop full of cynicism when discussing the “downtown relief line”. 😭
 
Rainforest said:
Come on. Based on the recent history, no way the extension will open sooner than 20 years after Phase 1.

Technically, no obstacles to begin designing the extension while Phase 1 is being built (well, other than the capacity of the central segment). But, the mandatory fights over the priority corridors, the route choice, tunneled vs elevated etc .. plus a long wait for the actual funding .. 20 years may be an optimistic prediction.
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The cost may be a lot more reasonable if extended elevated through more suburban built form. Perhaps just one river crossing and a highway.
 
MetroMan said:
I’d hold back my relief until this thing actually starts to get built. And maybe not even then. What are we looking at now? 3 years at best until shovels are in the ground? 10+ until it’s completed or at all if the next government doesn’t cancel it and start over?

If you’ve been on this forum for 20 years as some of us have, you build up a good scoop full of cynicism when discussing the “downtown relief line”. 😭
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They’ve conveniently scheduled financial close to be after the next election.
 
Coolstar said:
You forget that the Alstom Metropolis also has catenary power models.

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I don't know about the Simenens Inspiro but I think those trains would be nice for the 82 new subway trains for Line 1 and 2.
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Those Alstom trains are sexy. Are we allowed to say that word on this forum? Well, too late I guess. I stand by it. No thats not weird.
 
From the way the contracts are set up (sliced and diced north and south, civils versus ops), the players involved - Plenary is a very familiar name (they're involved with our next gen fleet of trains that will operate on the Melb metro tunnel, Sydney Metro fleet (pic already shown in this thread) and the Gold Coasts new tram line) - to the broad technical characteristics, you can see how globalised new rail line implementation has become.

Where 50 years ago there might be have been more noticeable quirks, these days, there's far more familiarities.

For instance, the 4 car, up to 5 car, possibly 100m platform stations is about the sweet spot that'll probably feature for the suburban rail loop here in Melbourne. Ontario line (capacity relief and expansion within a smaller geographical area) and the SRL (an orbital wrap-around to enhance an existing and continually upgraded radial network) are doing two different things, but it's interesting that many of the same players view their solutions as applicable to both.

Doubly interesting is that out of the 4 cities (Toronto, Melbourne, Montreal and Sydney) going down this path, Sydney (or more to the point, the NSW state government who has planning control) are aggressively pursuing active expansion / new rail lines with similar "metro" tech (as they now categorise it up there). The line that has recently been announced to connect to the new Western Sydney airport will be 4 car (the main metro line that's open and will be extended in a few years is 6-car - very AU suburban train-like) and I wouldn't be surprised look/feel is more akin to the Ontario Line despite it having an average station spacing of 4km (as it cuts through undeveloped areas atm).

I'd slot Montreal next to Sydney in this case because they appear to be now enthusiastically pursuing REM de l'Est which for all intents and purposes will most likely look the main REM under construction versus aggresively expanding their existing metro on the same scale.

And Melbourne & Toronto are dipping their toes in the water (OL and SRL example above) while also looking to augment existing networks / expand them too (in Toronto's case I'm specifically talking about TTC and GO, not just one or the other, in Melbourne's case it is the long list of level crossing removals and augmentations like Melbourne Metro and the mooted future cross-town connections still to come). Sydney's all but stopped enhancing its existing network - for now.

Apologies for the foreigner dumping in on this thread but I think closely watching what happens across the 4 cities will be a worthy exercise over the next decade - any academics on here? surely there's a thesis or ten in it. :)
 
I think the Ontario line should use the Bombardier Innovia 300 ( Mark III ) trains like they use in the Vancouver Skytrain. I think it is a logical idea because it is the same technology the existing Scarborough RT is using.

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Coolstar said:
The OL is supposed to be catenary powered so that's pretty unlikely.
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If the line is catenary powered they (Metrolinx) might as well just choose the Alstom Citadis Spirit instead of they really wanted to save money, those trains have a maximum speed of 105km/h and can be configured as long as 60m

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