Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s

Woodbridge_Heights said:
Could this be Ford's gas plant or oranje scandal???
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Gas plant was unique in that Liberals spent $1B to cancel their own plans. Gov't has always spent money cancelling others plans, or building/over-building far from ideal projects - but wasting huge sums of money cancelling your own plans was something rarely seen.
This is maybe similar to the UP line, but an order of magnitude larger.
 
WislaHD said:
Honest question to you guys:

Forgetting all the problems with the Ontario Line as proposed by Metrolinx/Ontario Government, would you give the project your blessing if the project could begin construction within this government and be delivered around 2030-2032?

Regardless of the various problems with the scheme, or whether the City's Relief Line plan was superior, the Ontario Line does not seem like a white elephant, and if built it would be a well-used and much needed addition of the Toronto rapid transit network that would expand transit access, add network redundancy, and reduce commute times for many parts of our city. Do people believe that not building anything is preferable to building the Ontario Line?
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We've seen this story before. The ideal is somewhere between the 2 options on the table.
Should we go with "Do Nothing", pick one of the binary choices, or find the optimum in-between.
(Last time we went "binary", although with the amount of time it took to make the decision - it actually had shades of "Do Nothing" mixed in (at least "do nothing" for a decade").

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Northern Light said:
An unfair question.

It really presupposes that the choice is 'this' or 'nothing'.

I think there are other choices available.
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I presented the question as such because I am skeptical there would be another option that is politically palatable to the Ford government, and should there be a change in government to the Liberals, they'll likely decide to "study" the line again and push funding and shovels in the ground to the next government again.

There may well be cost escalations and construction delays with a line seemingly haphazardly put together as this one, but I do trust Metrolinx and the winning construction consortium to eventually deliver the Ontario Line sometime between 2030 and 2035 if funding and shovels in the ground are committed within the next two years under this current government.

Call me selfish, but I do want to one day actually ride on this Line that I have spent a good portion of my time on UT discussing and speculating about, and ideally while I am still working age.
 
tiffer24 said:
The secret Metrolinx documents also confirmed that the province secretly hired Michael Schabas to oversee the new line and leaked details of Ford's transit plans to the Toronto Sun the day before his announcement.
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Oh boy, Metrolinx providing special leaks to the Toronto Sun. They've taken a page from the Ford playbook...next up will be the Warmington "exclusives". Before she passed wonder if Diane Ford was a Metrolinx PR consultant.
 
Putting the machinations aside, the only real issue I have with the OL is the question of capacity. We should not build anything that does not assure sufficient capability for future decades.
.I am extremely dubious of the premise that tighter headways than our subway system has ever achieved are a magic solution. The system should be rated based on the headways we have achieved to date with our subways, not on a throughput that is hypothetical.
This doesn’t mean TTC vanilla subway is the only design possible, but it’s the benchmark that we know this city can manage.

- Paul
 
BurlOak said:
Gas plant was unique in that Liberals spent $1B to cancel their own plans. Gov't has always spent money cancelling others plans, or building/over-building far from ideal projects - but wasting huge sums of money cancelling your own plans was something rarely seen.
This is maybe similar to the UP line, but an order of magnitude larger.
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And yet Ford promised different leadership from what was painted as a corrupt Liberal government from Gas Plants, to Oranje, to wind turbines and green energy, to ehealth, etc, etc. If Ford's government can't be transparent in it's decision making less than one year into their term, than how can it differentiate itself from previous Liberal government?
 
PC government spokesperson, Kinga Surma today at QP, after the announcement of the newest significant Crosstown delay:

"With Premier Ford’s leadership, the era of delays is over," says Surma. (This government cancelled an entire transit project, in the Hamilton LRT. And pushed back the timelines for a number of other Toronto transit projects.)
 
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tiffer24 said:
PC government spokesperson, Kinga Surma today at QP, after the announcement of the newest significant Crosstown delay:

"With Premier Ford’s leadership, the era of delays is over," says Surma. (This government cancelled an entire transit project, in the Hamilton LRT. And pushed back the timelines for a number of other Toronto transit projects.)
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What a bunch of propagandists.
 
Adjei said:
""The presentation argued Toronto transit construction had stalled in the 1970s due to the TTC and city’s preference for expensive underground tunnelled subways."

www.thestar.com

How Ford’s Ontario Line plan came together in just three months — with secrecy, a shifting route and a consultant

More than 5,600 pages of internal Metrolinx documents reveals the Ontario Line was dreamed up by a private consultant, who pitched the concept in January 2019. Three months later the premier would announce it as the “crown jewel” of his transit plans.
www.thestar.com www.thestar.com

Truer words have never been spoke..
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These are not true at all. Tunnel boring was introduced in the 60s (63) with the University subway. It was used again in 66 and 68 for parts of the bloor subway

Line 1 was extended from Eglinton to York Mills in 1973. That was all bored.
Line 1 was extended from York mills to Finch in 1976. That was all bored.

The spadina subway (line 1) was extended in 1978. That was bored from St Clair West to Eglinton west. It was on the surface north of Eglinton.

Kipling and Kennedy extensions opened in 1980.

You know what did occur in the 80s? the SRT was built. That's what the government was focused on: Pet project bullshit like ICTS. They could have extended the subway. They chose not to. There was also this big recession that occurred.

What about the 90s? Well, there was a recession near the end which seriously affected things, but there was also this guy named Mike Harris who cut back a huge plan for at least 15km of subway line, of which, 13 would be tunneled, and up to 20 more km of tunneled subway. Ultimately, 7 km were built (sheppard and sheppard West).

Then we had this big recession in 2009 that seriously slowed things down, but since then, 8.6 km has opened (the longer than the original yonge subway), with 13 more km coming in 2 years.

Government meddling and lack of willingness to invest in the system is what got us to where we are now, not a supposed fetishization of tunnelled subway building.
 
Ontario Moving Forward to Deliver Subways Faster
Proposed Legislation Would Give Province the Ability to Deliver Priority Transit Projects
February 18, 2020 4:10 P.M.
Ministry of Transportation

TORONTO - Today, Caroline Mulroney, Minister of Transportation introduced legislation that will help deliver Ontario's four priority subway projects on-time and on-budget. The proposed legislation demonstrates Ontario's real commitment to delivering transit faster for the people in the Greater Toronto Area, reducing congestion, and connecting people to places and jobs.

"In order to keep up with the tremendous growth in the region, we have to build modern, efficient rapid transit," said Minister Mulroney. "It will not only generate years of employment, it will allow us to better connect a world-class city and develop transit-oriented communities."

The Building Transit Faster Act would provide the province with the tools to expedite the planning, design and construction process that has delayed major projects in the past. If passed, the legislation would remove roadblocks and give the Province the ability needed to deliver projects faster by:

  • Relocating utilities more efficiently while treating businesses fairly, and ensuring costs are not passed on to consumers;
  • Ensuring the assembly of land required to construct stations, conduct tunneling and prepare sites, while treating property owners fairly;
  • Ensuring timely access to municipal services and rights-of-way;
  • Allowing Ontario to inspect and remove physical barriers with appropriate notification to property owners;
  • Ensuring nearby developments or construction projects are coordinated so they do not delay the four priority subway projects.
The projects include the all-new Ontario Line, the Yonge North Subway Extension, the three-stop Scarborough Subway Extension, and the Eglinton Crosstown West Extension, and will address the increasing demand for safe and reliable transportation options.

"Not only will this proposed legislation get people riding the trains earlier, but it will ensure that the province is best positioned to attract new business and keep our best and brightest here in Ontario," said Kinga Surma, Associate Minister of Transportation (GTA).

Ontario remains committed to partnering with the City of Toronto to remove roadblocks, engaging with local residents and businesses on each project, and consulting with Indigenous communities to ensure Aboriginal and treaty rights and interests are considered in the decision-making process.

The proposed changes support the government's commitment to making public transit an attractive, affordable and low-stress alternative to get people where they want to go, when they want to get there.

Quick Facts
  • In April 2019, the province announced its historic new transportation vision, with an estimated cost of $28.5 billion. This includes four priority transit projects: the all-new Ontario Line; a three-stop Scarborough Subway Extension; the Yonge North Subway Extension; and the Eglinton Crosstown West Extension.
  • In June 2019, the Getting Ontario Moving Act was enacted to enable provincial ownership of the subway extensions and new lines envisioned in Ontario’s new subway transit plan for the Greater Toronto Area (GTA).
  • The proposed legislation includes steps to make the relocation of utilities, such as gas or electrical, more efficient by requiring their infrastructure to be moved within a set timeframe and introduces a structured and consistent process for engaging and coordinating work.
Background Information
Additional Resources
 
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