Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s

44 North said:
Return loops you say? I've theorized something like this in my mind, but didn't know of any real world examples. Could be interesting.
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Any examples of modern metro systems built using loops, or is this just a feature of a handful of older systems?
44 North said:
Was it even fancy? Weird would be the term I would use. Worst part for me was a few months back when one of the perpetually-rotated ministers of transportation had some dumb grin about how their secret plan, that they wouldn't show cuz it was still being concocted, may or may not be a magnet train. That's not fancy or professional. And Metrolinx being used and thrown around with a big grin also. Like a rubber doll. Weird, political, not a fan.
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I mean... the graphic design in the report was very nice. My graphic design teacher would be impressed.

But yea, that whole secretive rollout was ridiculous. And we still haven’t heard their super secret Scarborough Subway plan nearly
18 months after they teased them. I’m sure they’ll be just marvellous.
 
Reecemartin said:
The third car requires relatively inexpensive rebuilding, it was fully designed in.
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The third car is supposed to be smaller, about 10m instead of 20m. The technical maximum is 12,500 ppdph not 15,000 ppdph as noted on the blog I previously quoted. The math simply doesn't work out and the 15k is just a BS lie. Also not all platforms are 50m so it will cost a bit of money to modify them. They are designed to be extended to 50m, not constructed.
 
Reecemartin said:
Just want to repeat this bit for emphasis in case it gets lost in the length of that last post

30000+ PPDPH will easily be achieved on this line, why? Vancouver's traditional Skytrain Lines using 80m trains have a pretty well verified max of 25000 PPDPH so even if you brought that style of train to 100m you could get over 30K that being said the OL has a number of advantages here: 3 meter wide trains (to Vancouvers 2.8ish), platform screen doors, etc
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I think a lot of peoples butthurt over the change in the DRL comes from an emotional area, even if they try to use logic to support that emotion. Its either political, they have an adoration for the existing subway system, fears that we will get a Scarborough RT part 2, or they just hate change.

The only rational fear I see is that it might delay things a bit further. But if they procure the construction of this to a third party, and they say it has to be X number of people per hour, that consortium will chose what they think is best to build it. As long as the government is diligent with their contracts and specifics (noise, winterization, etc etc) it will be fine.
 
I would have preferred the DRL subway, especially since it had a better alignment IMO and higher ultimate capacity. However, my opinion since the whole OL thing started has been that if it moves 30,000+ pphpd (Or I think I said under 26,000 wasn't worth it), then it's better to build it than to go through another cancellation/starting over. Personally my idea (as someone who isn't from the area) would be to retain the original DRL south part of the alignment (at least to Sumach) in exchange for taking out the southwest part of the line.
 
robmausser said:
I think a lot of peoples butthurt over the change in the DRL comes from an emotional area, even if they try to use logic to support that emotion. Its either political, they have an adoration for the existing subway system, fears that we will get a Scarborough RT part 2, or they just hate change.

The only rational fear I see is that it might delay things a bit further. But if they procure the construction of this to a third party, and they say it has to be X number of people per hour, that consortium will chose what they think is best to build it. As long as the government is diligent with their contracts and specifics (noise, winterization, etc etc) it will be fine.
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Hey man. I live right beside a subway so I'm all good. I'm perfectly ok with Scarborough continuing to shoot itself in the foot. I grew up there but rarely think of ever going back, partially to do with transit. If I'm butthurt about anything it is the fact I'm pretty sure this is going to be a complete disaster and then in 20 years all the supporters of it will have some revisionist history about it. At the end of the day I'm happy with any transit being built even if I think it's not the best allocation of finite resources. But I don't understand how anyone can think Ford is competent or has good motivation on anything based on his own track record.
 
Reecemartin said:
Just want to repeat this bit for emphasis in case it gets lost in the length of that last post

30000+ PPDPH will easily be achieved on this line, why? Vancouver's traditional Skytrain Lines using 80m trains have a pretty well verified max of 25000 PPDPH so even if you brought that style of train to 100m you could get over 30K that being said the OL has a number of advantages here: 3 meter wide trains (to Vancouvers 2.8ish), platform screen doors, etc
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Very nice if that's the case. However, did they actually clock 25,000 pphpd using 80m trains in Vancouver, or anywhere else? Or, is 25,000 a theoretical capacity that might be achieved under perfect conditions (no train delays, no passengers with mobility issues to hold the train on the platform for a few seconds longer, etc)?
 
TheTigerMaster said:
Any examples of modern metro systems built using loops, or is this just a feature of a handful of older systems?
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I can't imagine finding space for the loop near the Exhibition / Ontario Place terminus, if the line is elevated. Even the Science Centre terminus doesn't have an obvious space for the loop. Hopefully, a similar result can be achieved by extending the tracks 150 - 200 m past the station, and placing a crossover there; then the trains will always arrive to the same platform without waiting, and will reverse using the extended tracks.

Anyway, the terminus configuration addresses delays that could occur while reversing, but doesn't do anything to address the circulation of passengers at non-terminal stations.
 
Reecemartin said:
Just want to repeat this bit for emphasis in case it gets lost in the length of that last post

30000+ PPDPH will easily be achieved on this line, why? Vancouver's traditional Skytrain Lines using 80m trains have a pretty well verified max of 25000 PPDPH so even if you brought that style of train to 100m you could get over 30K that being said the OL has a number of advantages here: 3 meter wide trains (to Vancouvers 2.8ish), platform screen doors, etc
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People are hung up in general thinking about Canada Line is underbuilt when it was built appropriately. Ontario Line will be built accordingly.
 
Just build the damn thing. And build the Scarborough mistake as well. Smart people are moving downtown while the ones in denial are trying to maintain they suburban utopia through poor transit projects. The downtown people won't be the ones suffering. They will walk to work since more and more offices are opening downtown and the downtown livers will continue to become more prosperous as their home values will skyrocket with the increased mess congestion is causing the remainder city.
 
Rainforest said:
^ When their home values skyrocket, so will their property taxes :)
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You do realize that's not a deterrent. Like many other downtown elites on this thread I'll still continue drinking my Starbucks and biking around downtown. The burbs can continue their tim Horton's drive thru lifestyle collecting hockey cards and rolling up rims.
 
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Neutrino said:
And we'll have more money in the budget to build SSE, win win ;)
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Except the subways will cost even more in the future so the burbs will perpetually be beggers of finite resources. Sorry to break it to you but downtown isnt going to finance your suburban utopia forever.
 
sixrings said:
Except the subways will cost even more in the future so the burbs will perpetually be beggers of finite resources. Sorry to break it to you but downtown isnt going to finance your suburban utopia forever.
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Hey no need to attack me. I've made my position clear that I want the Scarborough subway to be affordable. Which is why I keep banging on about elevated and cut-and-cover. Also, as a general observation, the personal attacks (on both sides) when it comes to anything Scarborough subway related are getting tiresome.
 
Neutrino said:
Hey no need to attack me. I've made my position clear that I want the Scarborough subway to be affordable. Which is why I keep banging on about elevated and cut-and-cover. Also, as a general observation, the personal attacks (on both sides) when it comes to anything Scarborough subway related are getting tiresome.
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But although people on here keep saying cut and cover and or elevated clearly those options aren't politically favourable otherwise someone would have suggested those ideas already. I can't believe that politicians are so dumb they don't know these options exist. Rather they know that if they mention them they will lose votes. So they promise subways because people like fancy things. And they never dare mention elevated for fears of nimbys and cut and cover for fears of car drivers. If we had a dictatorship perhaps we could build cheaper. But we have a democracy so sometimes we have to do things the more expensive way. That or promise the more expensive way and then build nothing. That or elect a premier who thinks he's a dictator who will simply use the not withstanding clause on everything he wants to do. Maybe Scarborough is on to something after all.
 
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