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Ontario Line (was Relief Line South, in Design)

urbanyimby

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This is bigger than the Great Recession. We're likely heading for 30 percent unemployment (if we're not already there).

Now the recovery from this will likely be a lot faster than the Great Recession though. A deeper, but shorter recession.
It's all doom and gloom in every thread. Could you please stop with it?
 

AHK

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Thursday, March 26 - ground sampling rig at the corner of Bathurst and Stewart Streets (half block south the King Street) delivered yesterday and busy working away this morning.

20200325_151632.jpg
 

micheal_can

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This whole OL project is just a disaster waiting to happen. The fact that Doug thinks he can have this done by 2027 is impossible by Toronto standards, and we haven't even seen a SINGLE station, train, or elevated bridge design yet!. I'm just waiting for Doug to finally say that he messed up AGAIN on his little pet project that he thinks Toronto needs.
Depends upon how many of the "Relief Line" designs will be copied-and-pasted into the "Ontario Line" designs. Most likely some of the designs can can altered to fit, but some designs (IE. Science Centre, Exhibition Place, etc.) have to be designed from scratch.
Not only could it result in delays, but it could also make projects in the planning stage significantly more expensive. We're in the greatest economic crisis since World War 2. That brings a lot of uncertainty. Uncertainty = risk, and the government is asking the private sector to take on a lot of risk when building these projects. The prices will have to be adjusted accordingly.

Also, given how much deficit spending the government is doing in response to COVID-19, I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of the plans dramatically scaled back. If anything is on the copping block, I'd expect the EWLRT and the western segment of the Ontario Line to die first.
This is bigger than the Great Recession. We're likely heading for 30 percent unemployment (if we're not already there).

Now the recovery from this will likely be a lot faster than the Great Recession though. A deeper, but shorter recession.
If Dougie keeps to the mantra of subways, subways, subways, this line could be a good thing. This is one line that definitely should not be an LRT. I see this project as one of many that could be done to stimulate the economy. Honestly, with so many out of work people, these types of projects could be what is needed to employ the thousands of laid off people.
 

junctionist

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If Dougie keeps to the mantra of subways, subways, subways, this line could be a good thing. This is one line that definitely should not be an LRT. I see this project as one of many that could be done to stimulate the economy. Honestly, with so many out of work people, these types of projects could be what is needed to employ the thousands of laid off people.
But we'll need to vaccinate against the virus or wait until the cases decline significantly before we get the unemployed masses onto construction sites.
 

toronto647

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Not only could it result in delays, but it could also make projects in the planning stage significantly more expensive. We're in the greatest economic crisis since World War 2. That brings a lot of uncertainty. Uncertainty = risk, and the government is asking the private sector to take on a lot of risk when building these projects. The prices will have to be adjusted accordingly.

Also, given how much deficit spending the government is doing in response to COVID-19, I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of the plans dramatically scaled back. If anything is on the copping block, I'd expect the EWLRT and the western segment of the Ontario Line to die first.
I would beg to differ. In my opinion Yonge Line Extension would be dead and not EWLRT. Also as you said the west segment of the OL
 

GenerationW

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Transit City addressed glaring issues in the communities that needed it the most. It certainly wasn't meant to be the end all and be all of transit construction in the city. To say it didn't add capacity is kind of silly. The Jane LRT alone would've been a big boon to the west end.................. Scarborough would have their RT replacement up and running, the Eglinton LRT would probably be done, Finch West would be further along and we'd probably have the DRL already under construction, with Sheppard and Yonge North extensions further along too.
Things could obviously be built after Transit City, but it was definitely meant to be the be-all and end-all of transit construction as far as David Miller was concerned. We're talking about a long-term transit plan. It was already Miller's second term, and it would be unrealistic to think he would have won re-election repeatedly. I'm not convinced he would have defeated Rob in 2010. But let's assume an extended Miller mayoralty...

Adam Giambrone said a DRL would not be considered until Transit City was finished in 2018 (as if that date was realistic!). But who is to say they would support the DRL in alternate universe 2018? After all, it was already rejected once as there was no DRL in Transit City, which still boggles the mind.

There was one occasion when council under Miller had a position on the DRL In response to the province's support for the Yonge extension in January, 2009, Miller agreed to have the city pay for a Yonge Environmental Assessment in exchange for Metrolinx moving the DRL from its 25-year plan to its 15-year plan. That was pretty much the extent of his interest in the DRL. So, presuming Miller stayed on longer as mayor, the notion that other projects would have started concurrent with Transit City is far-fetched.

As for Scarborough having their RT replacement, maybe, but why wasn't the LRT included in the first wave of projects? That should have been a no-brainer. The RT replacement and the DRL were, by far, the city's two highest transit priorities, and Miller addressed neither. If he had, transit would be far less contentious today. Instead, he made political choices prioritizing Sheppard and Eglinton.

-----

As for the current situation, with the Corona crisis it seems likely at least one of Doug's big four (Ontario, Yonge, Scarborough, and EWLRT) will be chopped, or more likely delayed indefinitely. Yonge for me is easily the safest of them all. It has a completed EA, is closest to shovel-ready, and may make Doug more competitive in York Region. Scarborough was Rob's last moment of glory as mayor amid a fog of a gazillion scandals. Can't see Doug pissing on Rob's memory. EWLRT runs through Doug's neighbourhood, and he won't want to risk a future premier building something other than an underground extension. So I'm betting on Ontario. It's the most expensive one by far, needs federal support, and provincial Liberals are apparently lobbying their federal cousins to not fund it unless Ford reverts back to the TTC plan or at least hold off and wait to see if Ford loses in 2022. Not to mention that Doug will likely win zero seats in Ontario Line country.

Coming soon to Yonge: massive crush loads.
 
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cplchanb

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Things could obviously be built after Transit City, but it was definitely meant to be the be-all and end-all of transit construction as far as David Miller was concerned. We're talking about a long-term transit plan. It was already Miller's second term, and it would be unrealistic to think he would have won re-election repeatedly. I'm not convinced he would have defeated Rob in 2010. But let's assume an extended Miller mayoralty...

Adam Giambrone said a DRL would not be considered until Transit City was finished in 2018 (as if that date was realistic!). But who is to say they would support the DRL in alternate universe 2018? After all, it was already rejected once as there was no DRL in Transit City, which still boggles the mind.

There was one occasion when council under Miller had a position on the DRL In response to the province's support for the Yonge extension in January, 2009, Miller agreed to have the city pay for a Yonge Environmental Assessment in exchange for Metrolinx moving the DRL from its 25-year plan to its 15-year plan. That was pretty much the extent of his interest in the DRL. So, presuming Miller stayed on longer as mayor, the notion that other projects would have started concurrent with Transit City is far-fetched.

As for Scarborough having their RT replacement, maybe, but why wasn't the LRT included in the first wave of projects? That should have been a no-brainer. The RT replacement and the DRL were, by far, the city's two highest transit priorities, and Miller addressed neither. If he had, transit would be far less contentious today. Instead, he made political choices prioritizing Sheppard and Eglinton.

-----

As for the current situation, with the Corona crisis it seems likely at least one of Doug's big four (Ontario, Yonge, Scarborough, and EWLRT) will be chopped, or more likely delayed indefinitely. Yonge for me is easily the safest of them all. It has a completed EA, is closest to shovel-ready, and may make Doug more competitive in York Region. Scarborough was Rob's last moment of glory as mayor amid a fog of a gazillion scandals. Can't see Doug pissing on Rob's memory. EWLRT runs through Doug's neighbourhood, and he won't want to risk a future premier building something other than an underground extension. So I'm betting on Ontario. It's the most expensive one by far, needs federal support, and provincial Liberals are apparently lobbying their federal cousins to not fund it unless Ford reverts back to the TTC plan or at least hold off and wait to see if Ford loses in 2022. Not to mention that Doug will likely win zero seats in Ontario Line country.

Coming soon to Yonge: massive crush loads.
It is much easier and faster to build surface let vs tunneling as witnessed by the ect problems right now. Considering that Ford had half the lone redesigned which in design stage alone at least a 1 year delay, 2017 might be a bit tough, but 2018 is definitely achievable. Had they not stopped the Sheppard lrt construction in 2009 and delayed finch lrt start they would've been done in 2014 and prob 2016 respectively, leaving resources for jane and Scarborough lrt, which are relatively shorter lines.
 

robmausser

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The COVID crisis could be a huge turning point for telecommuting. Could a spike in working from home post-COVID reduce the crowding of Lines 1 and 2, easing the urgency of the OL?
Lets hope, because the impending recession will most likely delay it anyways
 

H4F33Z

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Things could obviously be built after Transit City, but it was definitely meant to be the be-all and end-all of transit construction as far as David Miller was concerned. We're talking about a long-term transit plan. It was already Miller's second term, and it would be unrealistic to think he would have won re-election repeatedly. I'm not convinced he would have defeated Rob in 2010. But let's assume an extended Miller mayoralty...

Adam Giambrone said a DRL would not be considered until Transit City was finished in 2018 (as if that date was realistic!). But who is to say they would support the DRL in alternate universe 2018? After all, it was already rejected once as there was no DRL in Transit City, which still boggles the mind.

There was one occasion when council under Miller had a position on the DRL In response to the province's support for the Yonge extension in January, 2009, Miller agreed to have the city pay for a Yonge Environmental Assessment in exchange for Metrolinx moving the DRL from its 25-year plan to its 15-year plan. That was pretty much the extent of his interest in the DRL. So, presuming Miller stayed on longer as mayor, the notion that other projects would have started concurrent with Transit City is far-fetched.

As for Scarborough having their RT replacement, maybe, but why wasn't the LRT included in the first wave of projects? That should have been a no-brainer. The RT replacement and the DRL were, by far, the city's two highest transit priorities, and Miller addressed neither. If he had, transit would be far less contentious today. Instead, he made political choices prioritizing Sheppard and Eglinton.

-----

As for the current situation, with the Corona crisis it seems likely at least one of Doug's big four (Ontario, Yonge, Scarborough, and EWLRT) will be chopped, or more likely delayed indefinitely. Yonge for me is easily the safest of them all. It has a completed EA, is closest to shovel-ready, and may make Doug more competitive in York Region. Scarborough was Rob's last moment of glory as mayor amid a fog of a gazillion scandals. Can't see Doug pissing on Rob's memory. EWLRT runs through Doug's neighbourhood, and he won't want to risk a future premier building something other than an underground extension. So I'm betting on Ontario. It's the most expensive one by far, needs federal support, and provincial Liberals are apparently lobbying their federal cousins to not fund it unless Ford reverts back to the TTC plan or at least hold off and wait to see if Ford loses in 2022. Not to mention that Doug will likely win zero seats in Ontario Line country.

Coming soon to Yonge: massive crush loads.
I'm placing my bets on yonge north being chopped
 

toronto647

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I'm placing my bets on yonge north being chopped
I agree...

Eglinton West is forsure going to happen to fulfill the crosstown vision and Ford lives along it
Scarborough will lose its SRT so they will need something or else ppl will be pissed
Ontario Line is needed to relieve stress that crosstown and finch west lrt will bring to Yonge in couple years (Maybe the western half to to Ontario Place gets chopped)

Only Yonge Line North seems like it make sense to get cancelled
 

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