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Ontario Line (was Relief Line South, in Design)

Johnny Au

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ssiguy2

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In a city that has proven itself over the last 40 years to be completely bogged down in political and bureaucratic inertia on the transit file, sometimes a bully is exactly what they need. This reminds me of Mayo Klein of Calgary in the early 80s when he wanted an LRT to the North West. The people on the route bitched up a storm with their transit NIMBY attitudes and Klein told them to f---off and pushed the project thru. Of course now the line has been a stellar success so much so that it has been extended twice. Naturally those once transit NIMBYs have been laughing all the way to the bank as they have seen their property values soar.

If governments were to succumb to every person or special interest group on infrastructure projects then the freeways, airports, transit, rail lines, hydro corridors, and power plants we enjoy today would have never been built. It's called imminent domain where the benefits of the millions MUST take priority over the interests of a few.

I find it both pathetic and offensive when there are some people on this forum who want HSR to London and mock and degrade the farmers along the route who complain that the line would divide up their farms and close down some of their roads yet the analogy with the Ontario Line seems to escape them.
 
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Adjei

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In a city that has proven itself over the last 40 years to be completely bogged down in political and bureaucratic inertia on the transit file, sometimes a bully is exactly what they need. This reminds me of Mayo Klein of Calgary in the early 80s when he wanted an LRT to the North West. The people on the route bitched up a storm with their transit NIMBY attitudes and Klein told them to f---off and pushed the project thru. Of course now the line has been a stellar success so much so that it has been extended twice. Naturally those once transit NIMBYs have been laughing all the way to the bank as they have seen their property values soar.

If governments were to succumb to every person or special interest group on infrastructure projects then the freeways, airports, transit, rail lines, hydro corridors, and power plants we enjoy today would have never been built. It's called imminent domain where the benefits of the millions MUST take priority over the interests of a few.

I find it both pathetic and offensive when there are some people on this forum who want HSR to London and mock and degrade the farmers along the route who complain that the line would divide up their farms and close down some of their roads yet the analogy with the Ontario Line seems to escape them.
Hahaha...Well said.

The hypocrisy is funny at times. We also saw this with the Scarborough LRT proposal. Elevated LRT was ok when it was in out in the boonies in Scaborough but as soon as one was proposed in Leslieville where it hits much closer to home for a lot of these people, all of a sudden elevated is evil. Yeah sometimes you need someone who will tell them to F off.
 

44 North

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Hahaha...Well said.

The hypocrisy is funny at times. We also saw this with the Scarborough LRT proposal. Elevated LRT was ok when it was in out in the boonies in Scaborough but as soon as one was proposed in Leslieville where it hits much closer to home for a lot of these people, all of a sudden elevated is evil. Yeah sometimes you need someone who will tell them to F off.
I can't say I've seen posts on this thread saying elevated is evil. Arguments that it doesn't work in this locale from a technical standpoint, removes rail corridor that is currently planned for other projects, capacity, etc. Yes. But not the way you're writing it.

Interestingly it's the opposite for me. Many posters who I know were hardcore opposed to any elevated anywhere are now somehow ultra supportive of it. And there's situations like Eglinton West - a corridor perfect for elevated that's now proposed to be underground. But they don't say anything.
 

BurlOak

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I can't say I've seen posts on this thread saying elevated is evil. Arguments that it doesn't work in this locale from a technical standpoint, removes rail corridor that is currently planned for other projects, capacity, etc. Yes. But not the way you're writing it.

Interestingly it's the opposite for me. Many posters who I know were hardcore opposed to any elevated anywhere are now somehow ultra supportive of it. And there's situations like Eglinton West - a corridor perfect for elevated that's now proposed to be underground. But they don't say anything.
Elevated made sense on Eglinton from Laird to at least Bermondsay, and maybe even all the way to Kennedy.
I don't think it made sense for a B-D extension to STC along McCowan.
For Ontario Line, it makes sense north of Don Valley (i.e. Millwood Bridge), but not south of it.
The problem is that cut-and-cover is not considered, thus the option with all the benefits of underground without the huge costs - are not considered.

Has anything been released on what's happening on Eglinton West?
 

Coolstar

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Elevated made sense on Eglinton from Laird to at least Bermondsay, and maybe even all the way to Kennedy.
I don't think it made sense for a B-D extension to STC along McCowan.
For Ontario Line, it makes sense north of Don Valley (i.e. Millwood Bridge), but not south of it.
The problem is that cut-and-cover is not considered, thus the option with all the benefits of underground without the huge costs - are not considered.

Has anything been released on what's happening on Eglinton West?
Not much but soil testing has since started.
 

W. K. Lis

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Elevated made sense on Eglinton from Laird to at least Bermondsay, and maybe even all the way to Kennedy.
I don't think it made sense for a B-D extension to STC along McCowan.
For Ontario Line, it makes sense north of Don Valley (i.e. Millwood Bridge), but not south of it.
The problem is that cut-and-cover is not considered, thus the option with all the benefits of underground without the huge costs - are not considered.

Has anything been released on what's happening on Eglinton West?
Cut-and-cover is fine when the tunnels are close to the surface. The problem is the vibration from the trains. We can experience that especially along Line 2, where they used cut-and-cover on most of the route. We can feel the train as they pass underneath.


From link.

The Relief Line designers figured deep tunnels would help combat the vibration and noise. Then Doug Ford, in his almighty "wisdom" decreed that noise and vibration can be ignored.
 

asher__jo

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Cut-and-cover is fine when the tunnels are close to the surface. The problem is the vibration from the trains. We can experience that especially along Line 2, where they used cut-and-cover on most of the route. We can feel the train as they pass underneath.


From link.

The Relief Line designers figured deep tunnels would help combat the vibration and noise. Then Doug Ford, in his almighty "wisdom" decreed that noise and vibration can be ignored.
The driving force for why the RL was much deeper was not solely about vibration, but much more about avoiding utilities and going under the Don.
 

W. K. Lis

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Deep station platforms are a hassle to get to and get out of.
Eglinton Crosstown LRT will have deep stations. Has to get under Eglinton West (Cedarvale) and Eglinton Stations. Caledonia Station will be the deepest on that line.

The Ontario Line will also be deep to get under Osgoode, Queen, and Pape (Danforth). Haven't seen any plans for the Science Centre Station, but hopefully they put in a station box TODAY, else they'll have dig it up again later.
 

BurlOak

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Eglinton Crosstown LRT will have deep stations. Has to get under Eglinton West (Cedarvale) and Eglinton Stations. Caledonia Station will be the deepest on that line.

The Ontario Line will also be deep to get under Osgoode, Queen, and Pape (Danforth). Haven't seen any plans for the Science Centre Station, but hopefully they put in a station box TODAY, else they'll have dig it up again later.
Interesting that the 2 shallowest stations (around 20m) on the previous DRL are Sumach and Broadview - on either side of Don River.
The deepest station (Gerrard) is about 45m deep, and it's on Carlaw - with depth set due to the sanitary sewer.
The 3 interchanges you mention are in the 30m to 35m depth range.
 

Coolstar

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Eglinton Crosstown LRT will have deep stations. Has to get under Eglinton West (Cedarvale) and Eglinton Stations. Caledonia Station will be the deepest on that line.

The Ontario Line will also be deep to get under Osgoode, Queen, and Pape (Danforth). Haven't seen any plans for the Science Centre Station, but hopefully they put in a station box TODAY, else they'll have dig it up again later.
Pretty sure Avenue is the deepest on Line 5.
 

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