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Ontario Line (was Relief Line South, in Design)

mdrejhon

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These fantasy maps are AWESOME! Keep 'em coming, I can't get enough!
Hello.

I present you, a thread I created:

25-Year Masterplanning (TTC 1950s/60s, Network 2011, GO 2020, Metrolinx 2031, Metrolinx 2041)

There is already major work towards electrification being done. For example, the new Whitby maintenance facility has those electrification portal mounts.

And the Union Station revitalization will be useless without an expansion of GO service (the upgrading of Union is proof that GO Expansion will continue).

Over the last decade(ish) they rebuilt/raised quite a few bridges in Hamilton to heights above electrification catenary (MacNab bridge rebuild, Bay bridge rebuild, and now the John bridge rebuild), as they did in many places, and the grade separations. The Georgetown Corridor megaproject cleared all grade crossings all the way between Union and nearly Brampton, making electrification much easier. Etc.

The plan is going to change again (balance of diesels and electrics) -- especially in government changes -- but the frequency will eventually reach nearly subway-league eventually in the core route segments. The existence of arm-length Metrolinx (for better or for worse) has made things a little more resistant to party politics than they were 15 years ago.

Sure, things are kicked out further. 2028 or 2031 instead of 2025. Things are a bit glacial. Legit Hairpull.

But, patience, my little padawan.
 
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micheal_can

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It always puzzles me that the city and TTC are complaining about funding, yet Toronto property taxes are one of the lowest percentage in all of Ontario, and even in Canada. Bump it up higher, and not only be able to afford the expansions, but also possibly cool the housing market. Seriously, if you can afford the $1,000,000 mortgage, you can afford the taxes that you should be paying on it.
 

asher__jo

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It always puzzles me that the city and TTC are complaining about funding, yet Toronto property taxes are one of the lowest percentage in all of Ontario, and even in Canada. Bump it up higher, and not only be able to afford the expansions, but also possibly cool the housing market. Seriously, if you can afford the $1,000,000 mortgage, you can afford the taxes that you should be paying on it.
I think it's a extremely valid argument, Montreal and Vancouver are both subsidized at the provincial level. It's a no-brainer and badly needs to be a Liberal/NDP platform policy.
 

11th

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It always puzzles me that the city and TTC are complaining about funding, yet Toronto property taxes are one of the lowest percentage in all of Ontario, and even in Canada. Bump it up higher, and not only be able to afford the expansions, but also possibly cool the housing market. Seriously, if you can afford the $1,000,000 mortgage, you can afford the taxes that you should be paying on it.
If property tax isn't tied to property assessed values, then sure, a few percentage point won't hurt.
Not everyone who lives in a million dollar home bought it at a million dollars, and no one would dare to suggest policies that may force the lower-middle/middle-class from their homes.
 

junctionist

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It always puzzles me that the city and TTC are complaining about funding, yet Toronto property taxes are one of the lowest percentage in all of Ontario, and even in Canada. Bump it up higher, and not only be able to afford the expansions, but also possibly cool the housing market. Seriously, if you can afford the $1,000,000 mortgage, you can afford the taxes that you should be paying on it.

We have the luxury of lower property taxes because of our higher population density and the large commercial tax base, particularly in the downtown core. Property values are higher than anywhere else in the province, so you don't need that high of a percentage of the property value in taxes to raise enough money for city services.

While I'm not saying that taxes shouldn't go up for certain items like badly needed infrastructure, let's not characterize our taxes as unreasonably low. We built up our city to have the highest population density in Ontario, and that carries certain benefits like greater efficiency in the delivery of city services.
 

micheal_can

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If property tax isn't tied to property assessed values, then sure, a few percentage point won't hurt.
Not everyone who lives in a million dollar home bought it at a million dollars, and no one would dare to suggest policies that may force the lower-middle/middle-class from their homes.

Either you don't own property, or you do not know how property taxes work. When I bought my house, I could have had my property taxes based on what I bought it for.

The other thing is, if you are seeing your assessment skyrocket, wouldn't you be a more involved citizen and try to get the market to cool.

We have the luxury of lower property taxes because of our higher population density and the large commercial tax base, particularly in the downtown core. Property values are higher than anywhere else in the province, so you don't need that high of a percentage of the property value in taxes to raise enough money for city services.

While I'm not saying that taxes shouldn't go up for certain items like badly needed infrastructure, let's not characterize our taxes as unreasonably low. We built up our city to have the highest population density in Ontario, and that carries certain benefits like greater efficiency in the delivery of city services.

I could agree if the city wasn't always in dire straights when it comes to funding transit and other needed city projects.
 

rbt

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Moreover the Yonge North Relief Study already looked at GO-RER as a means of relieving the Yonge subway - it won't.

AFAIR the GO-RER in the document was essentially as envisioned prior to SmartTrack. It assumed no fare integration, minimal to no bus integration, no additional 416 stations, ~10 minute peak frequencies (including additional upgrades to the Richmond Hill line), no straightening of Richmond Hill.

It's shouldn't have been a surprise that with that specific configuration showed few passengers transferring from TTC.

A GO Expansion with a stations at most major streets (Steeles, Finch, York Mills, Lawrence, Eglinton, ...), TTC bus connections, full fare integration (free transfers @ roughly $150M/year subsidy; less than the Ford subway plan will require in additional subsidy), and 5 to 7 minute all day frequencies would likely have different results with the same modelling program.
 
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WislaHD

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AFAIR the GO-RER in the document was essentially as envisioned prior to SmartTrack. It assumed no fare integration, minimal to no bus integration, no additional 416 stations, ~10 minute peak frequencies (including additional upgrades to the Richmond Hill line), no straightening of Richmond Hill.

It's shouldn't have been a surprise that with that specific configuration showed few passengers transferring from TTC.

A GO Expansion with a stations at most major streets (Steeles, Finch, York Mills, Lawrence, Eglinton, ...), TTC bus connections, full fare integration (free transfers @ roughly $150M/year subsidy; less than the Ford subway plan will require in additional subsidy), and 5 to 7 minute all day frequencies would likely have different results with the same modelling program.
None of which will happen on the Richmond Hill line because of it's multitude of complications.

And if we did invest the billions to rebuild the RH GO into an RER service, it would be an even more epic waste of money than the Scarborough subway.

Better to just use the money on a proper Relief Line.
 

micheal_can

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None of which will happen on the Richmond Hill line because of it's multitude of complications.

And if we did invest the billions to rebuild the RH GO into an RER service, it would be an even more epic waste of money than the Scarborough subway.

Better to just use the money on a proper Relief Line.

Which is wy I hate it when every new political leader must reinvent the wheel.They did it with SRT. They are doing it with ST and EC, and they are trying to do it to this line. Toronto has 3 very good types of higher order transit. Stick with them and use them as needed.
 

Rainforest

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It always puzzles me that the city and TTC are complaining about funding, yet Toronto property taxes are one of the lowest percentage in all of Ontario, and even in Canada. Bump it up higher, and not only be able to afford the expansions, but also possibly cool the housing market. Seriously, if you can afford the $1,000,000 mortgage, you can afford the taxes that you should be paying on it.

Toronto property taxes rates are low, but when multiplied by the high house costs, lead to significant tax burdens.

One concern is people on limited incomes, like seniors with pensions, who bought their houses long ago for say $200K. Their house may cost $1.2M today, but they do not benefit in any way from that on-paper increase untill they sell, an they can't afford a 6x tax amount. Taxing them at full rate would be equivalent to forcing them to sell and expelling them from the neighborhood.
 

micheal_can

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Toronto property taxes rates are low, but when multiplied by the high house costs, lead to significant tax burdens.

One concern is people on limited incomes, like seniors with pensions, who bought their houses long ago for say $200K. Their house may cost $1.2M today, but they do not benefit in any way from that on-paper increase untill they sell, an they can't afford a 6x tax amount. Taxing them at full rate would be equivalent to forcing them to sell and expelling them from the neighborhood.

You mean voters would be pissed that their going to see skyrocketing property tax assessments and would vote in people who will fix the housing crisis?

There, I fixed it for you.
 

TRONto

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Toronto property taxes rates are low, but when multiplied by the high house costs, lead to significant tax burdens.
RE Low rates- It's something most people don't get. Compare a 2000 sq ft home in different parts of the GTA and then you would likely see a higher burder on Toronto homeowners. Saying that, as just mentioned Toronto taxes should be lower based on our huge business tax base and the fact that we have higher density.

One concern is people on limited incomes, like seniors with pensions, who bought their houses long ago for say $200K. Their house may cost $1.2M today, but they do not benefit in any way from that on-paper increase untill they sell, an they can't afford a 6x tax amount. Taxing them at full rate would be equivalent to forcing them to sell and expelling them from the neighborhood.

I'm a little confused by what's written. If a house is assessed at $1.2M, they pay taxes accordingly regardless of when they bought it. The only time there would have been any X change was when the province switched over to a value based tax system decades ago (or huge jumps in value between assessments).
 

micheal_can

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RE Low rates- It's something most people don't get. Compare a 2000 sq ft home in different parts of the GTA and then you would likely see a higher burder on Toronto homeowners. Saying that, as just mentioned Toronto taxes should be lower based on our huge business tax base and the fact that we have higher density.



I'm a little confused by what's written. If a house is assessed at $1.2M, they pay taxes accordingly regardless of when they bought it. The only time there would have been any X change was when the province switched over to a value based tax system decades ago (or huge jumps in value between assessments).

Size does not matter. Lets say an assessed $500k house, everywhere, the city of Toronto will collect less taxes than other places. Ironically, Timmins has one of the highest property taxes, so if Toronto implemented those taxes, it would definitely hurt.

The Vancouver area has an additional gas tax added at the pumps. Maybe that can be done too.
 

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