Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s

[rbt]

Unfortunately, the city doesn't have the power to impose sales taxes.

Oddly, with the introduction of HST, neither does the province from a practical perspective.

Federal government policy under Harper, and likely still today, is a single rate for the province. Evidently non-trivial software changes are required for them to manage it by anything other than the province field of the mailing address.

For the province to do it, they would need to stand-up their own collection and enforcement system which would wipe out about half of a 0.5% sales tax.


The province could implement a 0.5% province wide infrastructure HST bump which gets distributed to the municipality it's collected within but that's a tough sell politically outside the GTA and Ottawa.

 

[LeanMeanMemeMachine]

Regarding different rolling stock that is to be used for this line, would vehicles like the Azur Metro or Alstom Metropolis vehicles in Montreal or other similar modern vehicles could be potentially used for this line?

Just remembering the specs that Metrolinx outlined in the OL's IBC, the first example of a train that I can think of that just about meets the specs is the Alstom Metropolis vehicles that are going to be used in Montreal and are currently being used in Sydney.

 

[MisterF]

Yonge North was 6 km and 5 stations, however, the original relief line was 6.5 km and 8 stations. I don't remember the exact ridership projections for each, but assuming Yonge North is about 200K and the Relief line is 350K, the per station ridership is as follows:

YN — 40K Passengers/Station
RL — 43K Passengers/Station

From a cost perspective, 5B for YN and 8.5B for RL:

YN — 25K $/Passenger
RL — 24.3 $/Passenger

They're very similar. The RL was obviously prioritized however due to the need for relief at Yonge and Bloor.

Yonge North was projected to have 165,000 daily riders but the 2008 regional transportation plan had it in the 40-50,000 range. The First phase of the DRL was projected to have 165,500 daily riders, with that number rising to 304,400 when it gets extended to Sheppard. With Line 1 ridership expected to drop significantly once the relief line goes to Sheppard, the relief line would have close to the same ridership as Line 1 (according to the YRNS).

The Ontario Line throws all that out the window though.

 

[Steve X]

Maybe put the tax on the drivers instead?

The only people Ford would tax is the Lefties and his oppositions.

Ford has gone the Wynne path. Spend massively on transit and increase revenue through other means like... billboard ads.

 

[Steve X]

Yonge North was projected to have 165,000 daily riders but the 2008 regional transportation plan had it in the 40-50,000 range. The First phase of the DRL was projected to have 165,500 daily riders, with that number rising to 304,400 when it gets extended to Sheppard. With Line 1 ridership expected to drop significantly once the relief line goes to Sheppard, the relief line would have close to the same ridership as Line 1 (according to the YRNS).

The Ontario Line throws all that out the window though.

I wouldn't exactly be worried. The riders along Finch and Steeles will still use Line 1. Unless the Relief Line is extended to Steeles, Line 1 will still carry the majority of the riders. A major portion of riders come from Scarborough. If they really get ST running in some form or dare I to say extend the Scarborough subway to Markham, it'll provide a lot of relief when the time comes. At that time, they'll likely need another relief line downtown. This is beyond 2050 so I'm not going to waste my efforts on this one.

 

[asher__jo]

Yonge North was projected to have 165,000 daily riders but the 2008 regional transportation plan had it in the 40-50,000 range. The First phase of the DRL was projected to have 165,500 daily riders, with that number rising to 304,400 when it gets extended to Sheppard. With Line 1 ridership expected to drop significantly once the relief line goes to Sheppard, the relief line would have close to the same ridership as Line 1 (according to the YRNS).

The Ontario Line throws all that out the window though.

I definitely agree the Ontario line having lower capacity than the RL and not being planned to Sheppard is problematic, BUT if Metrolinx finally deals with fair integration the Barrie and Stouffville GO lines could relieve alot of pressure with RER.

 

[JSF-1]

BUT if Metrolinx finally deals with fair integration the Barrie and Stouffville GO lines could relieve alot of pressure with RER.

That is assuming GO RER can ultimatly run a service comparable to the subway. Basically unless we're running trains like every 10 minutes or so the effect RER has on the subway will be minimal. Beyond 10 minutes and you begin to test people patience in regards to waiting for a train, especially if the journey is local. Ideally you would run RER service at 5 - 7 minute intervals since then you would likely see an immediate impact however as far as I know our RER system won't be set up to run at such high frequencies.

 

[Streety McCarface]

That is assuming GO RER can ultimatly run a service comparable to the subway. Basically unless we're running trains like every 10 minutes or so the effect RER has on the subway will be minimal. Beyond 10 minutes and you begin to test people patience in regards to waiting for a train, especially if the journey is local. Ideally you would run RER service at 5 - 7 minute intervals since then you would likely see an immediate impact however as far as I know our RER system won't be set up to run at such high frequencies.

It's not even that, trains will still be full once they reach the borders of Toronto. The Lakeshore line, for instance, is running 12-car bi-level trains every 5 minutes out of Union station. With all the development happening along Barrie-Stouffville, a 10-minute service with 4, even 8 car EMUs wouldn't help at all during the peak periods.

 

[mdrejhon]

Reminder, peeps.

The official Metrolinx plan appears to be:
--> EMU-only offpeak on Barrie line
--> Bombardier BiLevels during peak on Barrie line, electric loco driven (concurrent with EMUs)

This is the current GO Expansion plan, already released in 2018 after Ford was elected.

OFFPEAK SERVICE

PEAK SERVICE

Citation: 2018 GO Expansion Business Case (the Ford-ized version of Wynne Plan!)

During peak, that means
-- 9tph Barrie line to Aurora
-- 5tph Barrie to Allandale Waterfront
-- 7tph to 9tph Lakeshore West (most)
-- 12tph at Oakville and Clarkson
-- 4tph to 9tph Lakeshore East (most)
-- 12tph at Danforth
-- 8tph to 11tph Stouville to Unionville
-- 3tph to 4tph Stoufville to Linconlinville
-- 4tph Kitchener

Pretty much mostly "15min or better" at peak, with some stations with 7.5min to 5min frequency.

 

[WislaHD]

Moreover the Yonge North Relief Study already looked at GO-RER as a means of relieving the Yonge subway - it won't.

Relief Line corridor and GO-RER serve different commuter groups.

 

[CityStay]

These fantasy maps are AWESOME! Keep 'em coming, I can't get enough!

 

[Coolstar]

These fantasy maps are AWESOME! Keep 'em coming, I can't get enough!

Here you go.

 

[mdrejhon]

These fantasy maps are AWESOME! Keep 'em coming, I can't get enough!

Hello.

I present you, a thread I created:

25-Year Masterplanning (TTC 1950s/60s, Network 2011, GO 2020, Metrolinx 2031, Metrolinx 2041)

There is already major work towards electrification being done. For example, the new Whitby maintenance facility has those electrification portal mounts.

And the Union Station revitalization will be useless without an expansion of GO service (the upgrading of Union is proof that GO Expansion will continue).

Over the last decade(ish) they rebuilt/raised quite a few bridges in Hamilton to heights above electrification catenary (MacNab bridge rebuild, Bay bridge rebuild, and now the John bridge rebuild), as they did in many places, and the grade separations. The Georgetown Corridor megaproject cleared all grade crossings all the way between Union and nearly Brampton, making electrification much easier. Etc.

The plan is going to change again (balance of diesels and electrics) -- especially in government changes -- but the frequency will eventually reach nearly subway-league eventually in the core route segments. The existence of arm-length Metrolinx (for better or for worse) has made things a little more resistant to party politics than they were 15 years ago.

Sure, things are kicked out further. 2028 or 2031 instead of 2025. Things are a bit glacial. Legit Hairpull.

But, patience, my little padawan.

 

[Edward]

Neat stuff there.

 

[micheal_can]

It always puzzles me that the city and TTC are complaining about funding, yet Toronto property taxes are one of the lowest percentage in all of Ontario, and even in Canada. Bump it up higher, and not only be able to afford the expansions, but also possibly cool the housing market. Seriously, if you can afford the $1,000,000 mortgage, you can afford the taxes that you should be paying on it.