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Ontario Line (was Relief Line South, in Design)

mdu

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Another negative article from the Toronto Star about this line..
Whatever you think about the merits of light vs. heavy or tunneled/elevated/at-grade, there's been ample speculation both in the media and on this forum that the plan was rapidly thrown together. As the article puts it, scribbled on the back of a napkin. This article confirms these rumors with not just "it's obvious" but internal documents.
 

AlvinofDiaspar

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TheTigerMaster

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"No more backroom deals." Doug Ford, August 16, 2018

https://www.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=1349341

The secret Metrolinx documents also confirmed that the province secretly hired Michael Schabas to oversee the new line and leaked details of Ford's transit plans to the Toronto Sun the day before his announcement.
This guy sounds like a certain monorail salesman ?
 

Northern Light

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BurlOak

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Author of the Star article has now tweeted out the earlier version of the Ontario Line map that's referenced in the article.

View attachment 231111
This does look better. The questions it raises.
1) How about moving the TBM launch from King/Sumach to East Harbour Station box - and then continue cut-and-cover from here east and then northwards
2) How was this to get down from Queen - or was Ontario Place not even a destination then?
 
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BurlOak

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This does look better. The questions it raises.
1) How about moving the TBM launch from King/Sumach to East Harbour Station box - and then continue cut-and-cover from here east and then northwards
2) How was this to get down from Queen - or was Ontario Place not even a destination then?
Here's what I've got for the Relief Line (Yellow), Ontario Line (Orange) and Concept Relief Line (Blue).
The bottom of that blue line appears to avoid residential - so I say continue the cut-and-cover all the way down Pape and around to the East Harbour Station (or possibly just east of it). Based on the Relief Line alignment (where I have drawing), the Carlaw Sanitary Sewer is 12m deep. Hopefully, the blue line can pass over it. Then you simply start the TBM from East Harbour and go westward. This adds about 1km to the TBM length, and 1 emergency exit. But it keeps all construction underground. If you are going to add the extra distance and extra curves to avoid residences @ Eastern/Pape, why not just keep everyone happy.

1581796227460.png
 

BurlOak

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Why not just build the full DRL then?
This Preliminary Ontario Line (POL) seems to acknowledge the benefits of building Pape with cut-and-cover. It also recognizes that the Carlaw jog forces the line so deep under that Sanitary sewer (on Carlaw) that it precludes cut-and-cover all the way to Mortimer, which makes the Gerrard and Pape stations, plus the Wye, much more expensive.
Maybe just eliminating the Carlaw jog would have been enough to all the tunnel depth to be greatly reduced, but swinging down and building over a field (after factories demolished) will allow the line to be as shallow as possible (vs. being under Eastern Ave.) to more easily accomplish this.
 

W. K. Lis

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From that article...

The day of Ford’s April 10, 2019 announcement, few people outside the provincial government could say where the Ontario Line plan had come from. There had been no reports published to support the project, and no public debate on whether it was a good idea.​
But a cache of more than 5,600 pages of internal Metrolinx documents reveals the Ontario Line owes its origins to a private consultant, who pitched the concept to the agency’s CEO in January 2019. Just three months later, it was the Ford government’s top transit priority.​
The documents, which are emails and reports the Star obtained through a freedom of information request, are heavily redacted. Metrolinx, the provincial transit agency, has censored nearly 4,000 pages, claiming the important transit planning discussions they capture fall under exemptions to freedom of information legislation.​
"The documents, which are emails and reports the Star obtained through a freedom of information request, are heavily redacted. Metrolinx, the provincial transit agency, has censored nearly 4,000 pages, claiming the important transit planning discussions they capture fall under exemptions to freedom of information legislation."

Doug Ford is following in the goosesteps of his idol, Donald Trump, by redacting (def. to select or adapt as by obscuring or removing sensitive information for publication or release) 86% of the documents.

 

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BurlOak

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A couple of things I don't like here;
According to the emails obtained by the Star, by Nov. 19, 2018, Metrolinx CEO Phil Verster had convened a group to carry out Ford’s mission. Literally called the “Building Subways Quicker” committee, the group was overseen by the most senior officials at Metrolinx and Infrastructure Ontario, and tasked with delivering GTA subway projects as “quickly and efficiently as possible.”
Whereas Rob Ford, within 4 months of taking office, created an MOU to merge the Eglinton LRT with the SRT.
Here, it took Doug 4.5 months just to tell Metrolinx to start looking into it.

“So — having been dismissive of the (relief line), I now think that, re-crafted, it can be a great project,” he wrote in a Jan. 3, 2019 email to Verster, attaching the report.
. . . . .
On Feb. 26, Verster presented the new concept to the premier, who gave it the green light. Verster reported to Metrolinx and IO officials that day that the meeting “went really well” and they could move ahead. But he swore his colleagues to secrecy. “Strict confidentiality applies, do not talk about it,” he cautioned.
So essentially, the plan took 2 months to be derived.

At least Rob management to compromise with the other side to come up with his plan - which some consider the plan transit plan in Toronto for a generation. Unfortunately, the Liberals (the very ones who had helped come up with the combined plan) and Karen Stintz (who was supposed to be a Ford loyalist), went on to sabotage the plan.
Maybe that's why Doug Ford didn't trust anyone. Doug seems to have real trouble telling constructive criticism from those who are trying to sabotage his plans, so he listens to no-one.
 

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