Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s

I'd rather a cut & cover line be next to a commercial zone than a residential one — vibration is a real concern for people trying to sleep.

No it's not. I grew up right next to Line 2, lived in the basement and could easily hear the vibrations of the train. It never once kept me up at night. Not even one time. People need to stop making things up to fit their own personal narrative and bias.
 
No it's not. I grew up right next to Line 2, lived in the basement and could easily hear the vibrations of the train. It never once kept me up at night. Not even one time. People need to stop making things up to fit their own personal narrative and bias.

I took Streety's comment to mean the vibration of construction, not when the trains are running.
 
I took Streety's comment to mean the vibration of construction, not when the trains are running.
Actually streety has suggested in the past one should live 500 m away from a station in order not to feel vibrations. So maybe in this case he meant construction but previously he meant when talking about the subway running. I don't think I live 200 meters from Eglinton west and I cannot feel any vibrations.
 
No it's not. I grew up right next to Line 2, lived in the basement and could easily hear the vibrations of the train. It never once kept me up at night. Not even one time. People need to stop making things up to fit their own personal narrative and bias.

I personally have lived in the basement at 81 Spadina road, which lies directly above the N-S Spadina station. Considering it is a station, the vibrations were quite strong and had woken me up several times. There was screeching from the tracks that could be heard from vents in the roadway through my closed window as well. Of course, there was also considerable traffic noise considering my ground-level window faced the street; and I had probably been woken up more times by drunk people shouting outside the station than the subway itself.

Were vibrations keeping me up every night? No. Is it a valid concern? Definitely.

This isn't a nail in the coffin for future cut-and-cover. But it's important to realize that other people may have had different experiences than you and are not necessarily pushing some narrative or bias. It's more constructive to talk about concerns like that by acknowledging them and assessing them instead of acting like they don't exist.
 
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I personally have lived in the basement at 81 Spadina road, which lies directly above the N-S Spadina station. Considering it is a station, the vibrations were quite strong and had woken me up several times. There was screeching from the tracks that could be heard from vents in the roadway through my closed window as well. Of course, there was also considerable traffic noise considering my ground-level window faced the street; and I had probably been woken up more times by drunk people shouting outside the station than the subway itself.

Were vibrations keeping me up every night? No. Is it a valid concern? Definitely.

This isn't a nail in the coffin for future cut-and-cover. But it's important to realize that other people may have had different experiences than you and are not necessarily pushing some narrative or bias. It's more constructive to talk about concerns like that by acknowledging them and assessing them instead of acting like they don't exist.
Did the curve contribute to the noise? Is this more a local problem compared to a global problem along the line. Also, not sure if various technologies are quieter now than when Spadina was built .
 
WRT small existing structures near a new rapid transit line (ie wood frame houses or walk-ups) -
I won't make multi-million dollar decisions on tunnel depth/design based on those structures
remaining in place for any length of time after the line opens.

Will the new Ontario line have wheelchair, stroller, and bicycle stairway runnels? In case all the elevators and escalators are out-of-service?

ot2w23e26jr01.jpg

From link.

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From link.

The ramps would take up too much space.
All the more reason to minimize the number of staircases/escalators by having a shallow station.
 
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Did the curve contribute to the noise? Is this more a local problem compared to a global problem along the line. Also, not sure if various technologies are quieter now than when Spadina was built .
It is entirely possible that the curve added to the noise, mostly in the form of screeching. My guess as to why it was so strong would be how close my window was to the vent (>11m). The vibration impact from Line 2 may be lower because the line is offset from the road. It may just be that sound and vibration doesn't carry as far when vents are placed in these kinds of back lots. The centreline vent style is mainly used for the University-Spadina section of Line 1 while Yonge has vents on either side of the road. Perhaps this vent arrangement causes more noise? Hard to say with just my experience with them. If anyone else has lived in very close proximity to a station/vent it would be good to get more opinions.

If cut-and-cover is being used down the centreline of Pape for example, I think it would be very wise to study the different vent arrangements and see if some are better with noise and vibration than others. This section of the OL would be pretty straight though so there may not be much of an issue, but I think you would get much further with the residents there by showing them proof that the impact will be small.
 
It is entirely possible that the curve added to the noise, mostly in the form of screeching. My guess as to why it was so strong would be how close my window was to the vent (>11m). The vibration impact from Line 2 may be lower because the line is offset from the road. It may just be that sound and vibration doesn't carry as far when vents are placed in these kinds of back lots. The centreline vent style is mainly used for the University-Spadina section of Line 1 while Yonge has vents on either side of the road. Perhaps this vent arrangement causes more noise? Hard to say with just my experience with them. If anyone else has lived in very close proximity to a station/vent it would be good to get more opinions.

If cut-and-cover is being used down the centreline of Pape for example, I think it would be very wise to study the different vent arrangements and see if some are better with noise and vibration than others. This section of the OL would be pretty straight though so there may not be much of an issue, but I think you would get much further with the residents there by showing them proof that the impact will be small.
I had a 15th floor condo that overlooked Line 1 just down from Rosedale station right where it enters the tunnel and Bloor/Yonge station. There was zero vibration, however that part of the track, which is outdoors, has only a very slight curve...the screeching was loud and continuous for every passing train.
 
My understanding is that Metrolinx has been thinking more in line with use the rolling stock for REM than for the Skytrain, which are a bit larger and more typical of modern metro systems. The Skytrain system is on the smaller end of typical, while Toronto's system is large, and Metrolinx is looking for something in the middle.

From what they tell us the trains they want are 70% of TTC subway capacity at roughly 70% platform length but with much narrower trains. The only way to get that is to pack more people into the smaller space remaining.

Metrolinx came up with the plan, obviously, but was this their preferred option?

Metrolinx independently told us their preferred option back in 2015. It was the Relief Line South + North. That wasn’t a TTC idea or a City of Toronto idea, nor was it invented out of some political directive. The Relief Line North originated out of Metrolinx. And unlike the Ontario Line, there really isn’t any indication that there was political interference in the design process.

What the heck changed in five years to make Metrolinx oppose the Relief Line that they proposed, in favour of a solution with substantially less capacity, one that can't relieve the Yonge Line into the future, and one that, seemingly out of nowhere, decided that, of all places, Ontario Place, needed a subway more urgently than the Yonge Line needed capacity relief. Ontario Place... really? Metrolinx hasn't even attempted to answer for their dramatic change in position (hint: it was politically motived)

Seems to me that Doug came in and told Metrolinx to scrap the old plans and come up with something substantially different. This is what they came up with

It's Michael Schabas he's been a snake oil salesman for four decades. The bigger question is why anyone listens to this failed transit consultant. Toronto is going to be screwed by this guy because he wants a monument to his failed career.
 
General Question for anyone to answer -

1) Do you think the Ontario Line will end up being built and Why? Will Ford be able to get his blank together and put this line into motion before the 2022 elections so that the next government will be unable to cancel it?

If yes to the above question...

2) Do you think the Ontario Line will open by December 2027. If Yes Why? If no, Why and When do you think so?
 
General Question for anyone to answer -

1) Do you think the Ontario Line will end up being built and Why? Will Ford be able to get his blank together and put this line into motion before the 2022 elections so that the next government will be unable to cancel it?

If yes to the above question...

2) Do you think the Ontario Line will open by December 2027. If Yes Why? If no, Why and When do you think so?

1)Yes, it will end up getting built. Will there be shovels in the ground by the election, maybe. That does not mean it will be safe or not. It is a needed line. I'll bet all 4 major parties agree it is needed.


2) I think it will open by 2030.
 
1)Yes, it will end up getting built. Will there be shovels in the ground by the election, maybe. That does not mean it will be safe or not. It is a needed line. I'll bet all 4 major parties agree it is needed.

Would agree on that- the PCs desperately need a feather in their cap and the Ontario Line is just that. The entire mechanisms of government will yield to make that happen.

Whether or not it opens on its date is another question, though I think the PCs are willing to bank on people forgiving them because 'things are being built'.
 
Would agree on that- the PCs desperately need a feather in their cap and the Ontario Line is just that. The entire mechanisms of government will yield to make that happen.

Whether or not it opens on its date is another question, though I think the PCs are willing to bank on people forgiving them because 'things are being built'.

From 1995, when Mike Harris cancelled the Eglinton West Subway, to the proposed Eglinton Crosstown LRT opening in 2022, 25 years (a quarter of a century). Finally, something on Eglinton Avenue.
 
Liberals will lose the next election because of the leader they selected today. Expect a Tory reelection which means.... Subways subways subways
 

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