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Ontario Line (was Relief Line South, in Design)

mdrejhon

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If a subway stop appears in front of Ontario Place -- expect parking lots to eventually become replaced by condos with underground parking garages too. This will eat into exhibition land, but as long as the condos agree to be part of the annual circus, I'm OK. The land is empty asphalt most of the year anyway, wasteful environmentally, and it's still possible for The Ex and a few condos to coexist. They'd just have a TIFF-style circus surrounding the towers for a few days a year. Just make it mandatory for on-Ex-grounds condos to tolerate the Ex existence and continued annual operation -- including late-night noise-exception reminders in purchase/lease agreement.

I'd rather have a more sensible Ontario Line route alignment more friendly for a westward extension -- but hey -- plenty of room to economically justify the Ontario Place stop with asphalt that is environmentally-unfriendily empty >90% of the year. Maybe even with rules that at least 50-75% of main floor could have an economic requirement to be open to Ex grounds too (e.g. concessions, stores, showrooms, ec), as a concession for condo-permission. Can operate yearround too, even (during Ex and outside of Ex).

May be wrong thread for condos-in-Ex-grounds talk, but as it relates to economically justifying very southern-alignment Ontario Line stop (seeing Ontario Line stop will likely be within Ex grounds rather than inside the Ontario Place island)....
 
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MisterF

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Again it's worth noting that the Ontario Line maps identify the station as "Ontario Place/Exhibition". Everyone seems to be ignoring the "Exhibition" part. The alignment in the video by Colliers is conceptual at best and most likely just something that a CAD technician threw together.

That said, they could be planning the station just south of Exhibition GO. Maybe under Quebec Avenue, or maybe even in the parking lot on the south side of BMO Field. The latter would be about 400 m from Exhibition, and while that's not the worst transfer in the world they really should build it as close to Exhibition as possible. The easier the transfer between subway and RER, the more useful the station is as a Union reliever.
 

muller877

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They should have a route that puts an interchange with Exhibition, and then head south to Ontario Place.
I'm sure the proposal was purely marketing. However, if they are proposing a large facility they do need some higher order transit (and if there is entertainment they have to move a lot of people during crush loads). Even Budweiser stage should have something already.

It makes sense to have the stop at the Exhibition GO. Maybe a high speed gondola? (a replacement for the Ex chairlift!). With a stop at Ex Go, Ontario Place parking lots, East Island and West Island. Would disperse the crowds throughout the facility and allow for different nodes of activity (e.g. parking lots are retail with parking underneath, East Island is events (music, Skydome replacement, etc), West Island is entertainment (Boardwalk with restaurants, indoor/outdoor waterpark, Coney Island feel, etc).
 

innsertnamehere

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I'm sure the proposal was purely marketing. However, if they are proposing a large facility they do need some higher order transit (and if there is entertainment they have to move a lot of people during crush loads). Even Budweiser stage should have something already.

It makes sense to have the stop at the Exhibition GO. Maybe a high speed gondola? (a replacement for the Ex chairlift!). With a stop at Ex Go, Ontario Place parking lots, East Island and West Island. Would disperse the crowds throughout the facility and allow for different nodes of activity (e.g. parking lots are retail with parking underneath, East Island is events (music, Skydome replacement, etc), West Island is entertainment (Boardwalk with restaurants, indoor/outdoor waterpark, Coney Island feel, etc).
It's a 10-12 minute walk from Exhibition GO to Budweiser Stage.. not too bad really especially since it's for an event function and not a daily commute. It's how a ton of people get to the event today. I can't imagine the province building the station further south as a station at Exhibition can effectively service Ontario Place / The Ex as well as Liberty Village, which badly needs solid transit connections to the downtown.

Who knows though, perhaps the private bidder will provide some sort of lower capacity system to move people too and from the station.
 

M II A II R II K

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West of King-Bathurst if it veers down to the Lakeshore which makes it more likely that stretch would be above ground til it gets to Ontario Place, then after that it could head north to have a station between Exhibition and King Liberty to have an interchange with all westerly GO routes.
 

Edward Skira

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Take it as you wish but this press conference is happening at the Exhibition Go Station. I believe that's where the station will be.

Media Advisory
Minister of Transportation to Make an Announcement
May 29, 2019

Jeff Yurek, Minister of Transportation, will be joined by Monte McNaughton, Minister of Infrastructure, Phil Verster, Metrolinx President and CEO, and Ehren Cory, Infrastructure Ontario President to make an announcement at the Exhibition GO station.
Date: May 30, 2019
Time: Remarks at 3:30 p.m.
A media availability will follow.
Media are asked to arrive by 3:15 p.m.
Location: Exhibition GO Station
Manitoba Dr., Exhibition Place
Toronto
Livestream: Government of Ontario announcements YouTube channel
Note: Accredited media only.
Map
 

raptor

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Since IO is involved, then it's related to some contract. Here's hoping for the release of RFQ for the Ontario Line.
Don't lecture me on the need of an EA / TPAP as they are a complete waste of time.
 

rbt

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Jeff Yurek, Minister of Transportation, will be joined by Monte McNaughton, Minister of Infrastructure, Phil Verster, Metrolinx President and CEO, and Ehren Cory, Infrastructure Ontario President to make an announcement at the Exhibition GO station.
Interesting list. I would assume it's about selection of a winning bidder for a fairly major contract as IO generally wouldn't show up for a rebuild of Exhibition Station or for the start of an EA. That said, I kinda expected Ford to announce the close of a $8B+ RER DBOFM personally. It would be major announcement and he's the best salesman PC party has to ensure media doesn't flag it as a Wynne achievement.

Still, a major GO contract award seems the most likely.
 
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ssiguy2

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From a lay person's perspective, I would think this is going to be a GO/RER announcement and have nothing to do with the Ontario Line. The Ontario Line requires contributions from Toronto and seeing neither Tory nor anyone from the city will be present, I can't imagine it will be anything that is not completely under provincial domain. Ford and Tory have a rather crusty relationship and Tory is a thorn in Ford's side so I can't imagine Ford would allow Tory to show up for any infrastructure announcement that the city isn't contributing money towards.
 

Rainforest

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Odds are that Ontario Place’s redevelopment is the only reason this Ontario Line thing was proposed in the first place.
I think that's one half of their reasoning. The other half is their desire to build Yonge North (and it finally dawned on them that such extension without some form of Relief Line will create too much of a mess).

The situation isn't 100% bad; the positive bit is that, at last, the provincial government has a real stake in Relief Line. Without the RL, not just one but two of their favorite projects will be jeopardized.

The problem that will surely surface, and soon, is the misalignment of the real interests of the City and the Province. The Ford's government will be content with a 15k pphpd Ontario Line to balance the Yonge North influx (and even less than that to support Ontario Place). The route should be cheapest, and the number of stations minimal, as far as they are concerned. The City would like a line with extra capacity for the future growth, and stations that support local density and local connections in addition to serving as Yonge Relief. We will see a lot of arguments about the design details.
 

Leo_Chan

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I think that's one half of their reasoning. The other half is their desire to build Yonge North (and it finally dawned on them that such extension without some form of Relief Line will create too much of a mess).

The situation isn't 100% bad; the positive bit is that, at last, the provincial government has a real stake in Relief Line. Without the RL, not just one but two of their favorite projects will be jeopardized.

The problem that will surely surface, and soon, is the misalignment of the real interests of the City and the Province. The Ford's government will be content with a 15k pphpd Ontario Line to balance the Yonge North influx (and even less than that to support Ontario Place). The route should be cheapest, and the number of stations minimal, as far as they are concerned. The City would like a line with extra capacity for the future growth, and stations that support local density and local connections in addition to serving as Yonge Relief. We will see a lot of arguments about the design details.
Are you saying that designing the Ontario in relatively high isolation could reduce the costs and construction time, but severely impede access, planning, and integration?
 

Rainforest

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Are you saying that designing the Ontario in relatively high isolation could reduce the costs and construction time, but severely impede access, planning, and integration?
Basically, yes.

Although the main issue won't be "isolation", but the design choices based on the provincial priorities. It would be possible to use a technology distinct from the existing TTC subways, and still deliver the optimal capacity and the optimal stations locations. The question is whether the Ford's government is interested in doing so, or whether it can be convinced by the city.
 

steveintoronto

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I've become immune to getting excited over anything this regime is about to announce, let alone what they already have. Il Duce is even more exciting...and Perry Como rocks in comparison...(Sarcasm...)
 
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Reecemartin

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Take it as you wish but this press conference is happening at the Exhibition Go Station. I believe that's where the station will be.

Media Advisory
Minister of Transportation to Make an Announcement
May 29, 2019

Jeff Yurek, Minister of Transportation, will be joined by Monte McNaughton, Minister of Infrastructure, Phil Verster, Metrolinx President and CEO, and Ehren Cory, Infrastructure Ontario President to make an announcement at the Exhibition GO station.
Date: May 30, 2019
Time: Remarks at 3:30 p.m.
A media availability will follow.
Media are asked to arrive by 3:15 p.m.
Location: Exhibition GO Station
Manitoba Dr., Exhibition Place
Toronto
Livestream: Government of Ontario announcements YouTube channel
Note: Accredited media only.
Map
Sources suggest this is indeed GO related.

Also wanna point out that the station has been 100% confirmed to be at Ex not OP.

One final bit, has the DBFOM on RER even closed? How could they be awarding that . . .
 

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