News   Oct 22, 2021
 0     0 
News   Oct 22, 2021
 198     0 
News   Oct 22, 2021
 406     0 

Ontario Line (was Relief Line South, in Design)

dullturtle06

New Member
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 2, 2021
Messages
35
Reaction score
89
Location
Toronto
Steve's Article begins with a notation that the work is intended to raise bridge clearances:

View attachment 329005

Also of note is a significant change in the profile of the embankment as seen here (original on top, new at the bottom)

The intent appears to be to remove much of the (presumably vegetated) soils that would have covered the retaining walls.

View attachment 329006
So Steve Munro decided to compare the portion by the park original, with the new rendering that is the station and by the community center. Which by the way never had a landscaped wall, just the park area between stations.
 

TheTigerMaster

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Feb 3, 2012
Messages
13,151
Reaction score
6,627
Location
Best Toronto
It's becoming increasingly clear (and understandable) why certain communities are pushing back against Metrolinx.

As the Steve Munro article demonstrated, they do not deal with these communities in anything close to a respectful, transparent way.
I'm pretty much as anti-NIMBY as they come, but I don't envy any homeowners that have to deal with MX.
 

Steve Munro

New Member
Member Bio
Joined
May 29, 2021
Messages
15
Reaction score
79
So Steve Munro decided to compare the portion by the park original, with the new rendering that is the station and by the community center. Which by the way never had a landscaped wall, just the park area between stations.
I didn't "decide to compare" anything unfairly. Metrolinx has made a point of talking up the landscaped wall as a way to soften the effect of the widened corridor. Now, poof, it has vanished. So they offered something they are not planning to build. Bait and switch. The Metrolinx way.
 

dullturtle06

New Member
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 2, 2021
Messages
35
Reaction score
89
Location
Toronto
I didn't "decide to compare" anything unfairly. Metrolinx has made a point of talking up the landscaped wall as a way to soften the effect of the widened corridor. Now, poof, it has vanished. So they offered something they are not planning to build. Bait and switch. The Metrolinx way.
Well on comparison is of Jimmie simpson park, while the other is by the community center, where the station would be. Those are two different location on the corridor. The area by the community center never had a landscaped embankment. It was always a wall to fit the station platform in the corridor.
 

allengeorge

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Jun 27, 2019
Messages
923
Reaction score
2,179
Well on comparison is of Jimmie simpson park, while the other is by the community center, where the station would be
I was curious about this, and indeed - it appears @dullturtle06 is correct. These diagrams appear to be of two locations: one of the corridor next to the green space of Jimmie Simpson Park, the other next to the Jimmie Simpson Recreation Centre building. Two things aren’t clear to me:

1. Would there be such a difference between the two sections of the corridor that are so close together?
2. Why did the second diagram replace the first on the Metrolinx website as opposed to being added?
 

Steve Munro

New Member
Member Bio
Joined
May 29, 2021
Messages
15
Reaction score
79
I was curious about this, and indeed - it appears @dullturtle06 is correct. These diagrams appear to be of two locations: one of the corridor next to the green space of Jimmie Simpson Park, the other next to the Jimmie Simpson Recreation Centre building. Two things aren’t clear to me:

1. Would there be such a difference between the two sections of the corridor that are so close together?
2. Why did the second diagram replace the first on the Metrolinx website as opposed to being added?
Metrolinx has taken to using the cross section just north of the Jimmie Simpson Centre because it is the widest point of the corridor and therefore makes their proposal look the least intrusive. The area further south close to and at Queen has almost no space outside of Metrolinx property and the retaining wall will be at the sidewalk line. The drawings misrepresent what would be built. In any event, Metrolinx has repeatedly talked of a landscaped embankment as a way to soften their impact. You have to remember that they often resort to misrepresentation to deflect criticism. The difference in the drawings arises not from the location, but from one drawing being old and the other being new. It would not surprise me if this is a very recent change and whoever updated the web page did not fully understand what they were illustrating. Metrolinx has a chance to clarify this at the online consultation on June 24, although I hope to learn more beforehand.
 
  • Like
Reactions: syn

smallspy

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Nov 27, 2009
Messages
4,549
Reaction score
4,766
Steve's Article begins with a notation that the work is intended to raise bridge clearances:

View attachment 329005

Also of note is a significant change in the profile of the embankment as seen here (original on top, new at the bottom)

The intent appears to be to remove much of the (presumably vegetated) soils that would have covered the retaining walls.

View attachment 329006
I know that Steve's analysis said that.....

But I also found zero reference to it within the publicly-available Metrolinx literature. Granted, it may have come during his (many) discussions with their staff, but might it also have been an assumption which may not necessarily hold true (higher rails = more room below).

Dan
 

allengeorge

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Jun 27, 2019
Messages
923
Reaction score
2,179
The difference in the drawings arises not from the location, but from one drawing being old and the other being new.
Thanks for the comments. I’m a little confused about your statement above however: it does seem like these are two different locations along Jimmie Simpson.

My take is that the diagrams refer to (approximately):

Screen Shot 2021-06-20 at 09.03.25.png


In (1, first Metrolinx diagram) - the final state may involve a landscaped embankment. In (2, second Metrolinx diagram) next to the Rec Centre the final state includes no embankment at all, only noise walls, and the vegetation between the tracks in the corridor removed and the entire area flattened and raised.

Of course, this is conjecture on my part. It does need to be cleared up by Metrolinx.
 

gibsonm

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Jul 9, 2007
Messages
185
Reaction score
245
University Ave. was laid out at a time when you had the luxury of space
- and you could afford to have space that was purely ornamental, for show, that was not used on a regular basis.
But that time has passed.
I disagree. Even dense New York City has far more squares than Toronto. The monuments, fountains, trees, and greenery along University are a significant city feature. It’s good to have a ceremonial road for large civic celebrations. There was once a plan to turn Queen and University into a circle similar to Piccadilly Circus. As usual, plans got watered down.
E87EC60B-05D7-49F4-A3E2-3AC0E494884E.jpeg


Read about Vimy Circle: https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2014/01/26/the_five_greatest_ideas_toronto_never_built.html
 
Last edited:

syn

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 26, 2007
Messages
5,165
Reaction score
3,364
They could have easily rebuild Regent Park into that.

Probably not going to happen anywhere unless the city steps in.

Sometimes it seems as though they're trying to stuff as much development as they can, wherever they can. So far we've done a good job of wasting opportunities for grand gestures in areas ripe for them (like the waterfront).

Maybe we'll end up with another ridiculous condo project.

Vimy Circle by Menkes: The Circle of Life. Units starting from $1,929,000.
 

Steve Munro

New Member
Member Bio
Joined
May 29, 2021
Messages
15
Reaction score
79
I know that Steve's analysis said that.....

But I also found zero reference to it within the publicly-available Metrolinx literature. Granted, it may have come during his (many) discussions with their staff, but might it also have been an assumption which may not necessarily hold true (higher rails = more room below).

Dan
This issue was raised by Metrolinx, including the explanation about the overpass heights, in a community group meeting and later passed on to me. I expect a reply from Metrolinx to a series of questions about this change on Monday, and will update the article accordingly. I do not publish material invented out of thin air, especially when what I am told is confirmed by updated drawings online. Frankly I think this is a very last minute change in the project -- there is no mention of this in the GO expansion plans and the EPR states clearly that new spans added to the corridor would be at the same height as existing ones. Let us wait to see what Metrolinx' explanation is about this. Note that there will be online consultation for the Riverside segment this week.
 

TheTigerMaster

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Feb 3, 2012
Messages
13,151
Reaction score
6,627
Location
Best Toronto
Frankly I think this is a very last minute change in the project -- there is no mention of this in the GO expansion plans and the EPR states clearly that new spans added to the corridor would be at the same height as existing ones. Let us wait to see what Metrolinx' explanation is about this. Note that there will be online consultation for the Riverside segment this week.
Steve (or anyone else), any speculation on what might have motivated this last minute change?
 

gibsonm

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Jul 9, 2007
Messages
185
Reaction score
245
They could have easily rebuild Regent Park into that.
The Port Lands are the city’s last and biggest clean slate. Turn The Hearn into Toronto’s Tate Modern and surround the restored mouth of the Don with squares, statues and fountains. Muskoka meets steel and glass. Tommy Thompson is in my opinion the most beautiful and interesting public space in the city. Could’ve done something like this in a “Rail Deck Park”, but instead it will be more Circles of Debt by Menkes, Oxford, etc.
 

Top