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Ontario Line (was Relief Line South, in Design)

SunriseChampion

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You don't think there are any multi-family homes in Leslieville?

No transit?

No shelters?

You must be joking.

I know there are all of the above, and that has nothing to do with the spoilt locals crying about transit improvements.

Are they or are they not moaning about transit improvements because they'll be overground?
Why?
 

t54zhao

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You don't think there are any multi-family homes in Leslieville?

No transit?

No shelters?
The poor millionaires getting a subway station next to their house so now they're multi millionaires.

:(

"Not in my backyard!" they shriek

1611712476601.png
 

44 North

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The Overlea routing was partially reconsidered to allow the MSF to be along the line (as opposed to on a spur). If they’re doing that for the MSF, there’s no way the above will be considered.
That's some very complex interchanges just for one station and has a big potential for being more of a bottle neck then the end of the line stations.

I'm sure it wouldn't work all that well. Particularly with the "40tph" thing. But if anyone else has an idea for a spur/revenue-service wye, be it for the eastern waterfront or elsewhere, I wouldn't mind hearing it. A subway line from scratch, with supposedly tighter and more nimble rolling stock, this is the time to think of opportunities. Again not saying build a spur, rather plan for one to be in place in some indefinite future. How would it look or work.
 

Rainforest

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I am on the fence in this matter. On one hand, interests of one small city block must not overwrite the massive transit project, immensely important for the whole city. People living at the edge of downtown core, and near the busiest train corridor in the country, have to accept the fact that the city will build more infrastructure and some of it will be located next to them.

On the other hand, if the provincial government was going for the optimal capacity, rather than just enough for the first 15 years of service, then the line would stay under Queen in order to afford more capacity. And we wouldn't be having any Leslieville debate. Appeasing the locals isn't the main goal here, but it would be in match with the sound long-term capacity planning.
 

JSF-1

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I am on the fence in this matter. On one hand, interests of one small city block must not overwrite the massive transit project, immensely important for the whole city. People living at the edge of downtown core, and near the busiest train corridor in the country, have to accept the fact that the city will build more infrastructure and some of it will be located next to them.

On the other hand, if the provincial government was going for the optimal capacity, rather than just enough for the first 15 years of service, then the line would stay under Queen in order to afford more capacity. And we wouldn't be having any Leslieville debate. Appeasing the locals isn't the main goal here, but it would be in match with the sound long-term capacity planning.
Well if the Province was going for optimal capacity the OL wouldn't be a thing and we would still be building the DRL. However that ship for the moment has sailed and if this new technology allows us to reduce costs by bringing the line above ground more easily then full size subway tech, then we should make the most of it.
 

syn

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Well if the Province was going for optimal capacity the OL wouldn't be a thing and we would still be building the DRL. However that ship for the moment has sailed and if this new technology allows us to reduce costs by bringing the line above ground more easily then full size subway tech, then we should make the most of it.
That's the problem with this line.

They aren't going for maximal capacity with the only project on the books that absolutely requires it.

Sticking with the previous plan would've eliminated both of these problems.
 

KhalilHeron

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Sticking with the previous plan would've eliminated both of these problems.
While also providing service to fewer residents. The Ontario Line capacity may not be as high as the DRL but it is certainly more than enough to serve its main purpose. My guess is that the increased amount of residents the Ontario line serves, and the exposure it will give to Toronto residents of viable modes other than traditional subways will be well worth slightly less (but still sufficient) capacity. Also, I certainly think new transit should overrule any new development or nimbys without valid arguments but I do think Metrolinx could be a little nicer and more respectful about it.
 

sche

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Ford has been ignoring these people, that's why there's a problem.

When it comes to downtown Toronto it's crystal clear Ford isn't 'For The People'. He's for doing whatever he wants.
Huhhh, lets see..

Now, how many people have been ignored... like maybe a few hundred Leslieville NIMBYs max?

Now, how many people benefit... lets see..
- pretty much anyone in Flemingdon Park, Thorncliffe Park
- literally anyone who uses the OL in Leslieville now that they no longer need to climb like a 10 storey building to get to a train
- pretty much any transit user in like a third of North York and Scarborough
- literally anyone who commutes on the Yonge or Danforth subway
- literally every taxpayer, who saves money thanks to the govt not wasting several billion to please a couple hundred NIMBYs
 

CaskoChan

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Huhhh, lets see..

Now, how many people have been ignored... like maybe a few hundred Leslieville NIMBYs max?

Now, how many people benefit... lets see..
- pretty much anyone in Flemingdon Park, Thorncliffe Park
- literally anyone who uses the OL in Leslieville now that they no longer need to climb like a 10 storey building to get to a train
- pretty much any transit user in like a third of North York and Scarborough
- literally anyone who commutes on the Yonge or Danforth subway
- literally every taxpayer, who saves money thanks to the govt not wasting several billion to please a couple hundred NIMBYs
Why yes i do love climbing 10 floors, how could you tell?

Thank goodness they scraped that god awful relief line plan.
 

cplchanb

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Huhhh, lets see..

Now, how many people have been ignored... like maybe a few hundred Leslieville NIMBYs max?

Now, how many people benefit... lets see..
- pretty much anyone in Flemingdon Park, Thorncliffe Park
- literally anyone who uses the OL in Leslieville now that they no longer need to climb like a 10 storey building to get to a train
- pretty much any transit user in like a third of North York and Scarborough
- literally anyone who commutes on the Yonge or Danforth subway
- literally every taxpayer, who saves money thanks to the govt not wasting several billion to please a couple hundred NIMBYs
This.

You can't please everyone on everything. They need to look at the overall good. Nimbyers fail to realise that hence their constant me me me me, nobody but me mentality
 

JSF-1

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Why yes i do love climbing 10 floors, how could you tell?

Thank goodness they scraped that god awful relief line plan.
While this is true I do think it is worth pointing out the irony here in that while the DRL stations being deep is bad, apparently the stop at Lawrence on the SSE is perfectly fine even though it will be the deepest in the entire network. As well the transfer at Science Centre is now significantly worse then it would have been had the DRL made it to Eglinton at some point.
 

robmausser

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Huhhh, lets see..

Now, how many people have been ignored... like maybe a few hundred Leslieville NIMBYs max?

Now, how many people benefit... lets see..
- pretty much anyone in Flemingdon Park, Thorncliffe Park
- literally anyone who uses the OL in Leslieville now that they no longer need to climb like a 10 storey building to get to a train
- pretty much any transit user in like a third of North York and Scarborough
- literally anyone who commutes on the Yonge or Danforth subway
- literally every taxpayer, who saves money thanks to the govt not wasting several billion to please a couple hundred NIMBYs

Even though I despise NIMBYS, this is slipping a bit into Utilitarianism, which is not how our system of democracy in Canada works, and should never work. The best outcome for the most number of people should never infringe on the rights of even one man, is something central to the rights and freedoms of our country.

However, that being said, it must be made true that something is being infringed upon, and in the case of Leslieville, I don't think having a nice transit line through your neighborhood stands up to that challenge.
 

cplchanb

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Even though I despise NIMBYS, this is slipping a bit into Utilitarianism, which is not how our system of democracy in Canada works, and should never work. The best outcome for the most number of people should never infringe on the rights of even one man, is something central to the rights and freedoms of our country.

However, that being said, it must be made true that something is being infringed upon, and in the case of Leslieville, I don't think having a nice transit line through your neighborhood stands up to that challenge.
Whatlt rights are being trampled on? The right to comfort? The right to not look at a train track? The right to not have infrastructure built outside their property which they have no jurisdiction on??

People who pull the charter card for these situations rarely know what they are talking about and are just trying to whitewash their self interests as an entitlement and right. How about the rights of 1000s of other people whom you are severely holding back because of your own?

These people are guaranteed the right of mobility to move out anywhere else as they please if they don't like it in leslieville. Now that is an actual charter right.
 

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