Ontario Line (was Relief Line South, in Design)

[smallspy]

I think the REM has a lot of sections that were formerly heavy rail lines that may not be continuously fenced, so third rail would not have been safe.
For Ontario Line, you'd think the short at-grade sections could be fenced for third rail.

The service frequencies that are projected for the Ontario Line will require full fencing/ROW protection. The mode of power supply to the vehicles - overhead wire or third rail - is irrelevant in this case.

Dan

 

[ssiguy2]

Don't catenary tunnels require higher ceilings and hence cost more?

 

[afransen]

But it is cheaper above ground to use catenary (and perhaps better reliability with snow/ice). So I guess it is a function of above ground vs underground as a proportion of the total project. It makes it more complex, but aren't there trains with retractable catenary so it could be dual mode third rail underground and catenary above ground?

 

[micheal_can]

Or do what the blue line does in Boston... Both. Centenary in the open air. Third Rail in the tunnels.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Or do what the blue line does in Boston... Both. Centenary in the open air. Third Rail in the tunnels.

First half showing the power source for the trains...

 

[JSF-1]

Don't catenary tunnels require higher ceilings and hence cost more?

You can have low catenary. The Toei Oedo line in Tokyo has a low catenary that is only a couple of inches above the train. The tunnels would only be slightly larger then our standard tunnels but still shorter that a line that uses a standard catenary height.

 

[The REAL]

How likely is it that Metrolinx purchases the exact same trains as REM?

I feel VERY likely that Ontario will

 

[toronto647]

Can someone please clarify whether the RFP has been issued for the two items below:

Ontario Line – Rolling Stock, Systems, Operations and Maintenance
Ontario Line – Southern Civil, Stations and Tunnel

According to Infrastructure Ontario (IO) they are supposed to have been issued during Fall 2020. Technically they would have until December 21 (first day of Winter is Dec 22). Considering COVID is getting crazier in the city is it safe to say the RFP will be pushed to Winter or possibly even Spring 2021?

Link to IO report confirming the aforementioned information Page 2 https://www.infrastructureontario.ca/uploadedFiles/_CONTENT/News/2_Market_Update/Sept. 2020 P3 Market Update.pdf

 

[The REAL]

Some people in this thread would've prefered RL over the OL.

I would've definetly preferred the DRL over the OL only because they would've used the same rolling stock of trains which would been easier to stash. The only thing that made me think about the OL more was that the reports were saying that the DRL would have less of a distance to go to, they would've had to dig deeper underground because of the don valley, which would've instantly ballooned the cost of this project. Also the timing of this whole project was to be built a full 20 years later, which we all KNOW how dangerously packed Yonge & Bloor is now. The fact that Ford is renaming it the OL with cheaper options, the trains this time are ending at the Exhibition, and with a much sooner start date got me interested. As far cost goes, we'll have to wait and see as the at grade and the above grade sections will definetly change the dynamic of this project all together. The only thing that bothers me is that the new Science center LRT station was built underground for a reason, as the original plan was to have a seamless connections between the Crosstown LRT and the DRL for people heading to and from downtown. But now there's reports saying that the OL station at Don mills will be built UP TOP resulting in this weird "Kennedy station" like transfer. Idk how this will work and if at the end will it make Don mills look asthetically pleasing.

 

[smallspy]

Don't catenary tunnels require higher ceilings and hence cost more?

Yes.

Or do what the blue line does in Boston... Both. Centenary in the open air. Third Rail in the tunnels.

And now you've designed a vehicle that - unnecessarily - has additional components that can fail. For a new build line like this one, that seems like a silly thing to do.

You can have low catenary. The Toei Oedo line in Tokyo has a low catenary that is only a couple of inches above the train. The tunnels would only be slightly larger then our standard tunnels but still shorter that a line that uses a standard catenary height.
View attachment 283431

The "catenary" in this case is still outside of the operating envelope of the vehicle. The third contact rail in almost all cases is located within the operating envelope of the vehicle. (Chicago is about the only one I can think of where the third rail is located outside of the vehicle envelope.)

They do a good job of minimizing the size and distance of it on the Toei Oedo line, but no matter what it will still require a larger tunnel than if it had been constructed with a third contact rail.

Dan

 

[JSF-1]

On the topic of rolling stock, assuming we don't go with Catenary and instead opt for 3rd rail we could possibly see trains similar to the ones that will be used on the under construction Honolulu Subway which are made by Hitatchi. According to Wikipedia each car is 20 meters long (64') so that would make them I believe 11' shorter than the T1/TR cars but like 24' longer than the SRT cars which are something like 40' long if I am not mistaken. In the case of Honolulu they are only planing to run them as 4 car sets although we could and probably would run them in longer consists of maybe 6 or 8 car trains (maybe even 10 car depending on platform length).

 

[asher__jo]

I feel VERY likely that Ontario will

They did all the cold weather testing for them

 

[rbt]

Can someone please clarify whether the RFP has been issued for the two items below:

Ontario Line – Rolling Stock, Systems, Operations and Maintenance
Ontario Line – Southern Civil, Stations and Tunnel

I don't recall seeing an announcement of qualified companies from the RFQ yet, so I don't believe an RFP has been issued for either tender. RFQs are typically free (for the customer) but Metrolinx will be paying something (probably $50M each) for their RFP work.

Last day of Fall 2020 is December 21st, so they're not overdue yet.

 

[W. K. Lis]

I don't recall seeing an announcement of qualified companies from the RFQ yet, so I don't believe an RFP has been issued for either tender. RFQs are typically free (for the customer) but Metrolinx will be paying something (probably $50M each) for their RFP work.

Last day of Fall 2020 is December 21st, so they're not overdue yet.

Unless they use the Julian calendar, which is 13 days behind. (Today is November 5, 2020 on the Julian calendar.)

 

[toronto647]

Unless they use the Julian calendar, which is 13 days behind. (Today is November 5, 2020 on the Julian calendar.)

If the RFP is not issued for both Rolling Stock, Systems, Operations and Maintenance and Southern Civil, Stations and Tunnel by December 21 as promised by IO... I think that would be huge blow and considering Covid will be crazy in the Winter the RFPs will be sidelined till next summer at this rate.