Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s

[afransen]

If extensions can be above ground, they are more likely to happen, sooner. So it may not be 2070 before OL is extended.

 

[smallspy]

Lots do, RER lines in Paris, Line 1 and 14 as well and you've got more than a hand there. What about in London? Asia has lots too . . .

Over the whole of their length? The only ones that do are Paris Line 1, the Victoria Line in London (and even that is for short bursts only), one in Moscow....

It's quite easy to run multiple overlapping services and combine them to run at a very short headway. To run a full-length service takes a hell of a lot more work, effort and thought.

Dan

 

[micheal_can]

If Yonge street line overcrowding is still critical (which it is projected to be at some point regardless of the existence of OL phase 1), then I'd be a lot more optimistic for an extension to Sheppard. Possibly, construction on an OL extension to Sheppard could begin at or even before the opening of the Exhibition>>Eglinton section in the late 2020s/early 2030s. After all, Line 5's westward extension is to begin tunnelling some time next year, possibly even before the Kennedy>>Mt. Dennis section of Line 5 opens

With the current setup at Sci Centre, they could easily push a simple elevated extension with stops at Lawrence, York Mills, Graydon Hall and Sheppard. Beyond Sheppard, I don't think there is enough ridership to justify an extension before 2050.

If they get it to Sheppard, maybe it is run from Yonge though the OL. This makes the rolling stock choice all the more important.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

If you're depending on 90 second headways to keep your new mass transit service at a respectable crowding levels, well you've already fucked up.

90s headways are something one should aspire to, but not depend on

 

[ARG1]

If you're depending on 90 second headways to keep your new mass transit service at a respectable crowding levels, well you've already fucked up.

90s headways are something one should aspire to, but not depend on

How so?

 

[micheal_can]

If you're depending on 90 second headways to keep your new mass transit service at a respectable crowding levels, well you've already fucked up.

90s headways are something one should aspire to, but not depend on

How so?

How do you improve your flow if that is the maximum you can move?

 

[Towered]

I don't see why a Cherry station couldn't be added to directly serve the Distillery/West Donlands. Look at how close stations are on the Yonge line.

 

[H4F33Z]

I know it will be a really long time for anything past Eglinton to happen. But I quickly made a map of what the stops could look like and my thoughts on the Don Mills Alignment.

There are a few spots where it might be good for provisions. Just provide the space, so it's easy to build a future station.

The Ontario Line can definitely be elevated on Don Mills. There is space, and the fact that it's a light metro design rather than heavy rail makes it more possible on an elevated guideway without ruining the street.

But two lanes will have to be removed, and it'll be the HOV lanes. And because buses will be less, there's no need. So I can imagine a reimagined Don Mills with 4 car lanes, raised bike lanes, and widened sidewalks being pursued in other parts of the region.

 

[NoahB]

Over the whole of their length? The only ones that do are Paris Line 1, the Victoria Line in London (and even that is for short bursts only), one in Moscow....

It's quite easy to run multiple overlapping services and combine them to run at a very short headway. To run a full-length service takes a hell of a lot more work, effort and thought.

Dan

3 hour periods = short bursts. got it.

You people have never ridden a fully automated system, have you?
They make the Yonge Line feel clunky and slow. And the number of systems built and under construction with the ability to run at 90 seconds from day one are numerous.

 

[syn]

Well we have to look back at those projects and see how they failed, or were stopped. The previous Liberal era was plagued by provincial level politicians sitting on projects for years and years and not being able to make up their mind on what they wanted to do. Miller proposes Transit City, not much progress is done and Ford gets elected with his war on car message (and in many ways his arguments were absolutely valid), then Dalton sided with him and cancelled Transit City, then after Toronto failed to meat the funds, the liberals flip flopped again. What makes Ford different is he clearly has a strong priority of trying to cut through as much bureaucratic red tape as possible. Eglinton West and SSE will start boring next year, which is unprecedentedly fast in Toronto time, and there is a clear strong commitment from ford to try and get all of these projects through. The only chance that any of these projects will fail is if Ford somehow loses in 2022 (which is unlikely with current projections), and whoever replaces him pull a Mike Harris and fill all of the tunnels with cement, and will scrap OL for the DRL which would lead to a ton of outcry.

I know it will be a really long time for anything past Eglinton to happen. But I quickly made a map of what the stops could look like and my thoughts on the Don Mills Alignment.

View attachment 274822

There are a few spots where it might be good for provisions. Just provide the space, so it's easy to build a future station.

The Ontario Line can definitely be elevated on Don Mills. There is space, and the fact that it's a light metro design rather than heavy rail makes it more possible on an elevated guideway without ruining the street.

But two lanes will have to be removed, and it'll be the HOV lanes. And because buses will be less, there's no need. So I can imagine a reimagined Don Mills with 4 car lanes, raised bike lanes, and widened sidewalks being pursued in other parts of the region.

I wonder why?

If they're already going to Eglinton, going to Don Mills seems like a no-brainer...especially with all the talk of them being able to do it faster and more efficiently.

I can certainly see them leaving it for a Phase 2...but I'd hope it wouldn't take too long.

 

[afransen]

In fact, they should be planning the alignment now, even if they do phase it.

 

[turini2]

Over the whole of their length? The only ones that do are Paris Line 1, the Victoria Line in London (and even that is for short bursts only), one in Moscow....

I wouldn't call 6 hours a day "short bursts"... Victoria line services to increase in major boost for commuters - New timetable means trains arrive every 100 seconds for around three hours during weekday morning and evening peaks
There are many lines in the world that run at least 30tph ... I can think of at least 4 lines in London alone!

High frequency, automated train operation is going to be revolutionary for Toronto - the City hasn't yet experienced the quality of service that can be delivered under ATO CBTC on Line 1 either!

 

[Undead]

Are the Bond and Barber Greene stops necessary? Seems like they would slow the line without adding much ridership. Perhaps there is an argument in favour of greater neighborhood access/connectivity?

I know it will be a really long time for anything past Eglinton to happen. But I quickly made a map of what the stops could look like and my thoughts on the Don Mills Alignment.

View attachment 274822

There are a few spots where it might be good for provisions. Just provide the space, so it's easy to build a future station.

The Ontario Line can definitely be elevated on Don Mills. There is space, and the fact that it's a light metro design rather than heavy rail makes it more possible on an elevated guideway without ruining the street.

But two lanes will have to be removed, and it'll be the HOV lanes. And because buses will be less, there's no need. So I can imagine a reimagined Don Mills with 4 car lanes, raised bike lanes, and widened sidewalks being pursued in other parts of the region.

 

[toraerach]

I can only imagine the operational mess when a delay occurs. Picture an overcrowded Line 1 platform except it takes twice as long to clear the platforms and resume normal service (because the vehicle capacity is smaller and trains probably can't run less than 90s headways to restore service).

With a bulk of the line running above ground, combined with our winters, we can realistically expect a good number of nightmare commuting days on this thing.

Every system has bad days, so I don't doubt that there will occasionally be delays and crowding. However, the redundancies brought to the system by the OL and GO Expansion will hopefully keep people moving in a way that's impossible today whenever Line 1 goes down. A few nightmare commutes per year are a fact of life in our climate, no matter which method of transportation you use. With more employers now accustomed to telecommuting, expect more to develop inclement weather plans that keep their employees off the roads and rails those days.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Are the Bond and Barber Greene stops necessary? Seems like they would slow the line without adding much ridership. Perhaps there is an argument in favour of greater neighborhood access/connectivity?

Having rapid transit stations 1,000 metres apart allows for easier walking access. Don't forget the cul-de-sac and crescent designs of the residential areas which discourage walkability and adds more walking distance.