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Ontario Line (was Relief Line South, in Design)

innsertnamehere

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I am not concerned at all about OL being full on day one; that won't happen. The concern is that the line isn't future-proof enough.

Regarding the capacity, I can happily live with it only losing 10% compared to the traditional TTC design. However, if the OL trains are 15% shorter and 15% narrower than TR trains, then they can't have 90% of the TR capacity unless some kind of spatial magic is involved. (1 - 0.15) x (1 - 0.15) = 0.85 x 0.85 = 0.72, or 28% capacity loss.

And I get it that the lower capacity of one train can be compensated by running the trains more frequently. But the TRs can run more frequently as well, after the signal system overhaul and maybe adding some exists and widening some of the existing exits. That's a nontrivial investment, but a lot cheaper than building the next line.

For TRs, or any trains of similar size (no need to get fixated on the TTC's current equipment), frequency improvements with capacity growth is a future opportunity. On the contrary, the stated design maximum for OL will remain the maximum forever, because the greatest physically possible frequency is already counted in.

I hardly can imagine a situation where the ultimate capacity isn't nearly proportional to the train's floor area.
They can make up the size difference by having better frequencies. They are planned to run on 90 second intervals instead of the planned minimum frequency of TRs of 100-110 second intervals. This makes up for the smaller train size.
 

smallspy

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They can make up the size difference by having better frequencies. They are planned to run on 90 second intervals instead of 100-110 second intervals, which makes up for the smaller train size.
They *plan* to run 90 second frequencies....but they've never said how they plan on getting there.

And considering the number of rapid transit lines around the world that run at such high frequencies for sustained periods can be counted on one hand, I don't hold much hope of Metrolinx being capable of it.

Dan
 

W. K. Lis

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Also, lets *please* not forget how loud streetcars can be especially on corners. A train travelling on a relatively gentle curve does not shriek.
The streetcars are designed to take the tight curves of the legacy streetcar network (minimum radius 10.97 metres). The curves on Line 1 at Union Station and at Museum/St. George are not as tight, but can still squeal when the lubricates dry out.
 

AlvinofDiaspar

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yet somehow multiple escalators is perfectly reasonable when discussing a Scarborough LRT?
Or the West Harbour on the same line? :rolleyes: And we are extending BD precisely to, among other things, remove that inconvenient transfer supposedly from a legacy design issue, not as a new build? If you can't even keep your take consistent, I am not interested in any apologia.

AoD
 
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ARG1

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Or the West Harbour on the same line? :rolleyes: If you can't even keep your take consistent, I am not interested in any apologia.

AoD
West Harbour is all the way in Hamilton, what the hell are you talking about? As for East Harbour, its a cross-platform transfer, which is good. Time will tell whether or not this Science Center transfer is bad or not, and while I would prefer a single escalator solution like on Bloor-Yonge, just having it directly connect to the bus terminal isn't the worst either.
 

AlvinofDiaspar

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West Harbour is all the way in Hamilton, what the hell are you talking about? As for East Harbour, its a cross-platform transfer, which is good. Time will tell whether or not this Science Center transfer is bad or not, and while I would prefer a single escalator solution like on Bloor-Yonge, just having it directly connect to the bus terminal isn't the worst either.
You know as well as I do that the main transfer won't be to the bus terminal, but between OL and ECLRT. The point is if one argues that a lesser used transfer at East Harbour (thank you) will somehow demand cross-platform transfer, "hope for the best" isn't good enough for an interchange you *know* will be even more well-used.

AoD
 

daniel_kryz

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The fact that they chose to divert the Thorncliffe Park section (resulting in two very tight curves and more destroyed trees) is beyond me. And why do they want to make the elevated section go through the middle of the Don Mills/Eglinton intersection? This is terrible for the surrounding development potential and for the public realm!
 

ARG1

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You know as well as I do that the main transfer isn't to the bus terminal, but between OL and ECLRT.

AoD
So what do you suggest then? Having a steep nosedive after Flemingdon Park so that it can go from being elevated all the way to below Line 5? Wasting extra billions of dollars on tunneling the entire Thorncliffe/Flemingdon Area?
 

ARG1

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The fact that they chose to divert the Thorncliffe Park section (resulting in two very tight curves and more destroyed trees) is beyond me. And why do they want to make the elevated section go through the middle of the Don Mills/Eglinton intersection? This is terrible for the surrounding development potential and for the public realm!
How so? The style of elevated metro building is very similar to what Vancouver does with the Skytrain, and as that city shows, It can work really well for both development and the public realm.
 

Haydenpoon

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You know as well as I do that the main transfer won't be to the bus terminal, but between OL and ECLRT. The point is if one argues that a lesser used transfer at East Harbour (thank you) will somehow demand cross-platform transfer, "hope for the best" isn't good enough for an interchange you *know* will be even more well-used.

AoD
A longer escalator directly from the OL platform to Eglinton Crosstown Concourse?
 

AlvinofDiaspar

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So what do you suggest then? Having a steep nosedive after Flemingdon Park so that it can go from being elevated all the way to below Line 5? Wasting extra billions of dollars on tunneling the entire Thorncliffe/Flemingdon Area?
Hey you are using new technologies now, you can do a nosedive.

As to wasting billions - well, fortunately that's no big issue for an org giving us a tunnelled EWLRT and SSE (ironically eliminating an unwieldy transfer in the latter). ;)

AoD
 

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