Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s

There hasn't been any real consultation on the planning of this line; there has been information about things being done and marketing (some of it intellectually dishonest) about why it is such a better idea than the relief line. But I can't believe for a moment that there are no preliminary plans that could be shown. There are, but we don't get to see them. We don't get to discuss with the planners where the stations go. If this does allow for the project to be planned and built more quickly than the typically glacial pace of Toronto transit projects, maybe we will say the lack of democracy was worth it.
You’re not a transit planner, you don’t get to tell Metrolinx where you want the stations to go. Just like condo residents don’t get to tell the structural engineers that they don’t like where a column comes through their unit. There’s some things you have to accept even if it’s tax payer dollars being used to build the project.
 
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As seen with the Yonge North extension and with the OL, the premier isn't saying that "ground transit is for 2nd class citizens". Instead what he's mostly been fighting against is on street median rapid transit like LRTs, which is certainly a respectable stance.

This isn't true.

The Scarborough LRT that he was fighting against was not on the street. It was going to be an elevated line, completely grade separated. The current RT (also separated) and it's replacement were what he opposed, claiming they treated Scarborough residents like 2nd class citizens.

LRTs on the street have their place. If he has such a problem with them, why is he not clamouring for subways to replace crowded streetcar lines downtown?

And if he really is about building subways, then why not build this necessary, full capacity subway line as originally intended, the one place it's actually warranted?
 
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Here's a good breakdown:

These are all good things though. While stuff like public hearings are important, these are the kinds of things that considerably slow down construction of lines, and any amount of streamlining is a good thing. Ideally this law would apply to all future projects but I digress.
 
These are all good things though. While stuff like public hearings are important, these are the kinds of things that considerably slow down construction of lines, and any amount of streamlining is a good thing. Ideally this law would apply to all future projects but I digress.

The elimination of hearing's of necessity is a good thing?!

You're cool with not getting a say if the government wants to expropriate your property?

The current process works well. The issue is that politicians keep changing plans - that's what has to be addressed.

Eliminating community rights isn't the way to go. It just makes it easy for us to dismiss people as "NIMBYS" when they may have very legitimate concerns.
 
The elimination of hearing's of necessity is a good thing?!

You're cool with not getting a say if the government wants to expropriate your property?

The current process works well. The issue is that politicians keep changing plans - that's what has to be addressed.

Eliminating community rights isn't the way to go. It just makes it easy for us to dismiss people as "NIMBYS" when they may have very legitimate concerns.
We're not at a stage where we can take transit slowly and carefully. We are decades behind on our transit infrastructure, working on projects that should've been built in the 80s or 90s. Yes there are sacrifices that need to be made, but at least for the time being, until our transit infrastructure is up to par with what is expected in a city of our size, we have to take these shortcuts.
 
These are all good things though. While stuff like public hearings are important, these are the kinds of things that considerably slow down construction of lines, and any amount of streamlining is a good thing. Ideally this law would apply to all future projects but I digress.
I think that is BS. I was involved with the DRL public consultations from start to finish. For every event, it was copied to multiple sites on different nights to make it easier for the public to attend. Everyone had their questions/concerns/inputs addressed. We never heard from any organization that participated that it was slowing the process down - Not Metrolinx, TTC, or municipal/provincial government. The DRL meetings were 1. presentation 2. questions 3. display boards with all kinds of people to help explain them. For the OL, all we have had was a pathetic "Open House" at the end of January with display boards and people to answer questions who did not know anything more than what was written on the low information boards i.e. a joke.
 
We're not at a stage where we can take transit slowly and carefully. We are decades behind on our transit infrastructure, working on projects that should've been built in the 80s or 90s. Yes there are sacrifices that need to be made, but at least for the time being, until our transit infrastructure is up to par with what is expected in a city of our size, we have to take these shortcuts.

I agree with the 'slowly part'. The process has slowed, yet again, because Ford dumped a near shovel ready plan (the DRL South).

Citizen engagement and respecting their rights isn't the reason transit isn't getting built. It's the politicians.

Ford claims to be for the 'little guy' yet this bill helps silence the 'little guys' that get in the way of what they want to do.

I'll ask it again - you'd be fine with the government expropriating your property and you not getting any say?
 
I agree with the 'slowly part'. The process has slowed, yet again, because Ford dumped a near shovel ready plan (the DRL South).

Citizen engagement and respecting their rights isn't the reason transit isn't getting built. It's the politicians.

Ford claims to be for the 'little guy' yet this bill helps silence the 'little guys' that get in the way of what they want to do.

I'll ask it again - you'd be fine with the government expropriating your property and you not getting any say?
If I was properly compensated for my property then yes I would. And no, stuff like endless studies and community engagement programs absolutely do slow down construction. Compare the rate at which things are done in Toronto compared to a city like Moscow, where all they do is draw lines on a map and TBMs go vroom. As a result they build 11 stations and 17km of track EVERY YEAR. While I'm not advocating for Moscow levels of authoritarian control, its important to note the difference in speed in which stuff get built when you add a ton of extraneous elements during the planning stage. Also, please stop spreading the nonsense about DRL South being anywhere close to shovel ready. None of the engineering work even began when Ford got into Office.
 
We can look at Montreal. The REM was given special powers and the plowed through the public hearings. Now they will have a state of the art new line open 5 years after proposal. While the Blue Line extension is getting delayed again because one property owner (the mall at the end of the line) didn't like what they were offered after talking with the gov for years.

If you look at any transit plan they always add almost a year (or more) of consultations before going to the next steps.
 
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We can look at Montreal. The REM was given special powers and the plowed through the public hearings. Now they will have a state of the art new line open 5 years after proposal. While the Blue Line extension is getting delayed again because one property owner (the mall at the end of the line). Didn't like what they were offered after talking with the gov for years.

If you look at any transit plan they always add almost a year (or more) of consultations before going to the next steps.

I’d wager that has way more to do with the private interest at play regarding REM. Money motivates like nothing else
 
I’d wager that has way more to do with the private interest at play regarding REM. Money motivates like nothing else

That part is not a secret nor a conspiracy. Value capture (1km radius) and non-compete clauses (with all transit agencies) are part of the contract and are well documented by the media. Notably, the private interest here is Quebec's pension fund ( Caisse de dépôt et placement du Québec) which owns a lot of lands around the line.

Also notable, the CDPQ apparently approached the Wayne government for a similar project for Ontario, but her gov refused.
 
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Bogging down projects in consultations is foolish. Even more foolish is believing everything the government tells you, particularly when tens of billions of your dollars are on the line. We all have a responsibility be mighty suspicious of the government’s motivations, particularly given the level of secrecy here. The fact that nothing meaningful has been disclosed about this $11 Billion project after some 16 months of work is unacceptable, no matter how you slice it.
 

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