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OneCity Plan

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Those rail corridors would be electrified and integrated into the overall system eventually no matter what plan is put forth. And would provide badly needed express services to accommodate long distance travel.
 

scarberiankhatru

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That's your number one objection? The plan they released clearly shows the Yonge subway extending north of Steeles, with a big arrow. City of Toronto is discussing what they are funding, which would only be up to Steeles. But there's no indication here that the TTC would end the subway at Steeles, if people were willing to fund north of Steeles.

No, it's not my number one objection, it's just what I listed first. I didn't need to list any and I could have listed more. Other than the fact that I was looking at Yonge out a window when I posted that, my eye goes to Yonge Street when I see a map of Toronto, just like your finger goes towards 'reply with quote' whenever your eye spies a certain yellow hexagon.

To even mention going only to Steeles as an option and costing it out will only do harm and no good. That's a real danger involved with releasing half-baked plans as a starting point for provincial/federal negotiations...it's on the Internet now and people will be phoning in to radio and TV shows and posting comments and writing in to papers and emailing politicians and showing up to public meetings with possibly inaccurate information. All it takes is one politician in the right post who doesn't have a strong grasp of transit/urban issues to say "Oh, I agree, we should do X" and suddenly it's as good as set in stone.
 
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ssiguy2

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Looks like a good plan although we have to remember that nobody presents new plans as well or as often as Toronto.

It certainly covers the whole city, acknowledges that there really is a "need for speed", and it is the first proposal to come out of the TTC that actually employs some of it's already existing transportation infrastructure ie the express subway routes.

There are of course potential problems suchas, will Toronto continue to tunnel in the suburbs like from Kennedy to STC? Will they bring in very strict spending controls so you don't end up with Taj Majal stations like on the Spadina ext. Will they actually start work immediately as support for the plan will plunge if the taxes go up and nothing new is being built as Eg/Shep/Fin were being built before these new taxes so they will want to see real and quick results from the new money they are ponying up?

Of course there is the little problem about money which seems to be glossed over. Queen's Park is already forking over $8 billion and has absolutely no money left. Ontario is already on the verge of a credit downgrade and has no more money to spare and certainly won't for the rest of the decade. Ottawa may help a little but banking on them for one third is lunacy especially if their friend Ford goes out of his way to tell Harper NOT to fork over any money.

Stinz is a politician thru and thru but this plan does 2 important things............Toronto finally uses some of it's existing infrastructure and someone finally has the balls to tell Torontonians what the rest of the world already knew..........if you want something you have to pay for it.
 

rbt

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I am not sure how this "Spanish Solution" works. If the centre platform is for exiting passengers and the side platform for entering, then the door openings must be staggered (either physically or time delayed) to give the exitters time (and space) to leave before the entering passengers come in.

It could work extremely well if the doors were staggered on the cars themselves rather than directly across from one another.

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Lots of issues with this type of layout though. A person going to the wrong door at a single platform station when the train was crowded wouldn't make their stop.
 

lovarkitec

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The most interesting thing about this plan, at the level of city politics, is that it's got the Fords in a complete crossfire. It outstrips anything the Mayor has dared, and contains more subways than he's ever dreamed of. It contains his obsession - a brand new subway line right through the entire heart of Scarborough - and ups it. Plus, the Sheppard West extension.
It unifies the entire city. It's vast, comprehensive...and has as the centre of it's foundation, a funding plan. So Ford can basically say that there should be no new taxes for such a thing, and that Stintz was right to make Scarborough have to settle, for the foreseeable future, for LRT. Or he can say that new taxes should be allowed for his election-promise projects - which means he never had a plan figured to begin with, which means he lied on the campaign trail. Also, why couldn't he have managed to do it himself when he had the chance, in that first year and a half? Again - Stintz wins. The Ford's don't know whether they're coming or going. I'm afraid Stintz has them chasing their own tails.

Beautifully said! this is political strategy at its best folks!! Stintz may be our next mayor - or at the very least, a serious contender!
 

doady

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Those rail corridors would be electrified and integrated into the overall system eventually no matter what plan is put forth. And would provide badly needed express services to accommodate long distance travel.

That should be GO's initiative, not TTC's. TTC should focus on local service.

I think this is a really bad plan. Only a few of Transit City's problems have been fixed, and some have been magnified. The plan is just really bloated and redundant.
 

Rainforest

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To even mention going only to Steeles as an option and costing it out will only do harm and no good. That's a real danger involved with releasing half-baked plans as a starting point for provincial/federal negotiations...it's on the Internet now and people will be phoning in to radio and TV shows and posting comments and writing in to papers and emailing politicians and showing up to public meetings with possibly inaccurate information. All it takes is one politician in the right post who doesn't have a strong grasp of transit/urban issues to say "Oh, I agree, we should do X" and suddenly it's as good as set in stone.

There is no way for a plan based on Toronto's property tax to include funding for subway stations located outside 416.

Once the Finch to Steeles extension is funded, York Region will probably find funding for the extension to Hwy 7. Previously, York Region was pushing Toronto for the Yonge extension; now the roles are reversed. There is nothing wrong with that.
 
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sakrio

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very ambitious was my initial reaction

nice plan (yay for sheppard west subway!)

hope it gets approved so things can actually move forward in this city
 

BurlOak

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The TTC fare must increase to at least $4.50 a trip, why should everyone but the user be called upon to finance their ride? If the city must subsidize every ride why is it smart to try and increase the number of riders?

I do not know if $4.50 is the correct amount, but it seems reasonable to expect the people who will benefit the most to pay something.

Say 1M riders per day x 365 days x $0.25 = $90M.

I imagine that a gas tax or vehicle registration tax is better on a Regional level and maybe would be used for the Province to come up with their share.
 

BurlOak

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There are of course potential problems suchas, will Toronto continue to tunnel in the suburbs like from Kennedy to STC? Will they bring in very strict spending controls so you don't end up with Taj Majal stations like on the Spadina ext.

One option was for a single bored tunnel south of Wilson. Similar to how Montreal's narrow Metro trains share their single bored tunnels.

I think there should be some type of sympossium or what have you to explore ways of making subway construction less expensive in Toronto. I think TTC has shown that they can design or build subways for $400 to $500M per km. Before you go to the people asking for money, the TTC needs to demonstrate that they are making efficient use of the funds.

This could include shallow cut-and-cover, elevated, P3, simpler stations, etc., etc. I would like to know what compromises would have to be made to save money, and how much could be saved. When TTC can prove that the plan is the best bang for the buck, it would be a lot more sell-able.
 

Patrick Smyth

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Here we go again. What right does the Stintz Gang have to foist all this Transit crap on us one more time? When i think about Regent/Alexandra/Park, Lawrence Hts and Jane/Finch, or Towers-in-the-Park, Urban Sprawl, I see mistakes of planning. At a time when we are experiencing hyper-intensification, loss of open space and traffic chaos, why is the TO Planning Dept so decimated in funding, staffing and independence? I wish this Council would grow up and get some real problems solved and stop all this politicking and jockeying for position.
 

Patrick Smyth

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Couldn't agree with you more! For a start, I can't see the reason for having a TTC anyway. Why not let the management group run the business and keep the petty politicians out of it altogether? Same with the Planning Dept. There should not be significant planning decisions made by councillors. Who thinks that's good planning? Who believes Karen Stintz is a transit expert? we have to man-up and stop the nonsense on Council. Remember, we're footing the bill for all this and now we're going to pay for another "Study".

I think there should be some type of sympossium or what have you to explore ways of making subway construction less expensive in Toronto. I think TTC has shown that they can design or build subways for $400 to $500M per km. Before you go to the people asking for money, the TTC needs to demonstrate that they are making efficient use of the funds.

This could include shallow cut-and-cover, elevated, P3, simpler stations, etc., etc. I would like to know what compromises would have to be made to save money, and how much could be saved. When TTC can prove that the plan is the best bang for the buck, it would be a lot more sell-able.
 

nfitz

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I hope Ontario does not elect Hudak. Him and Ford working together would make me psychotic
The next Ontario election isn't due until 2015 ... no reason to think Ford would be around by then, even if Hudak is.

And no reason to think there'd be an election before then, with the strongest minority government in history. Could be a majority government soon, if the Liberals take Kitchener-Waterloo in the upcoming by-election.
 

gweed123

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