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No cars on the Gardiner in Mammoliti's waterfront plan

grey

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http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/transportation/article/820537--no-cars-on-the-gardiner-in-mammoliti-s-waterfront-plan?bn=1

Candidate’s plan would turn expressway into a skyway and send drivers along an eight-lane Lake Shore Blvd.
Tess Kalinowski
Transportation Reporter


Cars would be banned from the Gardiner in favour of transit, pedestrian and cycling lanes, and drivers would be confined to an eight-lane Lake Shore Blvd., according to a $1.3 billion waterfront plan unveiled Tuesday by mayoral candidate Georgio Mammoliti.

The vision of University of Toronto architecture professors Ivan Saleff and Robert Wright, reimagines the Gardiner as a 6-kilometre “Skyway” similar to New York’s High Line, a pedestrian park that’s been built along an old elevated rail corridor. It would be open down the middle, like a giant skylight over Lake Shore.

“The Gardiner would open just like Moses opened up the sea,” said Mammoliti at a water’s-edge press conference near Cherry St.

Drivers, who would depend on Lake Shore Blvd. and a Front St. extension, would be tolled $2 to enter the city during the rush hour. They would also have the option of parking in two giant lots near the CNE and the foot of the Don Valley Expressway for the day for a $15 fee that would also include a transit pass.

Mammoliti’s plan also includes 12 new Sky Parks that would equal about 15 Yonge-Dundas Squares.

In the second phase of his plan, Mammoliti envisions transit lines to the Toronto Island and airport. The island would also be home to a convention centre and hotel.

“The whole thing talks about turning a mediocre waterfront into something special, … just like the Chicagos and the Vancouvers of this world,” he said.

Mammoliti wants to pay for the plan over four years using $200 million annually in revenue from a floating casino in the Toronto harbour, about $100 million annually in parking fees and about $75 million from road tolls.


Mammoliti just turned the gardiner into rape alley and crime central. And also the world’s most expensive sidewalk. This guy is out to lunch. Why on earth would dozens of thousands of people use the gardiner to walk around on? That’s the threshold you’d need to reach to make it an active environment.
 
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Justin10000

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I actually like the idea of turning the Gardiner into a linear park similar to the High Line in New York. I think if there were convenient access points, it could be popular with the downtown residents. His idea of building parking lots outside the core, and providing transit service to finish their journey is not new, isn't it? I believe this idea was done in a few German cities. I personally like the idea of charging drivers a flat rate to enter the city.

That part of the plan, I actually like. The rest of his plan is pretty crazy. It IS possible to build a transit line to the Island(LRT over the Eastern Gap, but why? Why would you ruin the beauty of the islands with development, and a transit line that will probably be seasonal? This guy should just save his money ,and bow out. He totally killed a pretty cool idea by trying to develop the islands.
 

Rainforest

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^ Elevated linear park stands out, but linear park at the ground level is actually more attractive.

If they do proceed with Gardiner removal, could they dig DRL subway into that strip before doing the surface level? A bit too far south, but if it rediuces the cost considerably ...
 

js97

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Mammolitti has some wacky...wacky ideas... I don't even know why he is running!

Me thinks he's been hired by someone to be the 'monkey wrench' in this whole debate.

Possibly Pantalone... if you saw the last mayoral debate... definately some backroom politic'ing going on.
 

Haljackey

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The High Line in NYC was converted because the trains used a new subway below.

Using this analogy, a "Big Dig" needs to be made for the Gardiner before the elevated section can be converted. Doing without it makes no sense.

Besides, I doubt a lot of people will use it. Too many stairs/ramps to climb up and down to make it an effective pedestrian route.
 

kEiThZ

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Just toll the thing. Bury it. Put the eight land grand Lakeshore on top. Anything else is a useless gimmick.
 

doady

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^ Yeah, toll the Gardiner and DVP, but use the money to pay for transit expansion.

Electronic tolls on the DVP for both incoming and outgoing traffic, and classic toll booths on all incoming traffic on Gardiner (to increase the amount of gridlock on the QEW in Mississauga). Only 905 residents would be subject to tolls to make them more politically viable to 416 voters and so tourism is not affected.

Putting the Gardiner underground or getting rid of it altogether is kind of pointless with that rail corridor remaing there as a barrier.
 

nfitz

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The High Line in NYC was converted because the trains used a new subway below.
There is no subway below the High Line - the closest is the 8th Avenue line - but it's older than the High Line as far as I know.

Also the High Line never carried passengers - it was only freight. I've certainly never noticed any stations. And there is no freight subways.

Perhaps you are thinking of some of the old elevated lines in Manhattan from the 1800s - such as the Ninth Avenue line which was demolished in the 1940s.
 

Blovertis

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Why wouldn't you just tear the Gardiner down and build a linear park in its place at ground level, if you're not going to use it for cars?
Exactly. This is the worst of both worlds--no expressway downtown and an inaccessible park in exchange.

From what I've seen High Line Park is a lot narrower (and lower) than the Gardiner platform.
 

Mapleson

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That's what you get when you let architects design transportation systems.

(1) Gardiner + Lakeshore = 12 lanes, so upgrading Lakeshore to 8-lanes is a 33% reduction in capacity.

(2) It would be open in the middle?! It's that a major safety hazard, like people falling/jumping into the middle of the 8-lane Lakeshore below?

(3) $2 toll on Lakeshore only? Sounds like even more congestion causing to get around it. If not, it's toll infrastructure costs to collect about $40,000 a day ($10.4m a year).

(4) I like the CNE and DVP parking lots with TTC pass, but $15 a day? Either people need to park downtown temporarily and pay $10 per hour or they park permanently for less than $300 a month. So if both options are cheaper, who's going to park in no man's land?

(5) A transit line to Toronto Island?! We can't even build a bridge/tunnel to the Airport. I don't know about anyone else, but I like the ferry and those rich enough to live on the Islands mostly have their own boats.

(6) For the $1.5 billion dollar price tag, we just could hold another G20 Summit to cause congestion instead.
 

Woodbridge_Heights

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All that maintenance expense for a park? You can't be serious, if you're going to propose that you might as well just let the thing crumble and have the park below it. An 8 lane Lakeshore? You think crossing it now is tough????

Some candidate please put in motion to have the Gardiner buried, it's the most logical and IMHO economical solution.
 

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