EnviroTO
Senior Member
It isn't actually getting implemented during the worst economic times... it is getting implemented in the middle of next summer and virtually every economist says the recession will be over by then.
|
|
|
Next Premier of Ontario?
- Thread starter newbuyer
- Start date
It isn't actually getting implemented during the worst economic times... it is getting implemented in the middle of next summer and virtually every economist says the recession will be over by then.
afransen
Senior Member
Buy used!
Don't forget your thousand dollar cheque, either. Or your income tax reductions.
Besides that, those fees were cut by 2% (GST). Furthermore--I don't care, even if I had to pay it. I'm not one who supports good policy only when it is personally beneficial. I think a couple percentage points on a few expenses (and no change on the rest) are a small price to pay in aggregate for a more efficient tax system.
Now, why don't you try to paint me as naive for not having hundreds of thousands of dollars invested in mutual funds, where the management expenses will be newly taxable by 8%. Some people call those 'retirement funds'.
Last edited:
newbuyer
Active Member
yeah, but who knows what is going to actually happen? Some people say there will be a second dip, and some people say the recession is over. For sure it is going to take a while before the economy is back healthy.
Solaris
Senior Member
the whole HST is stupid ... it would save businesses 'adminstrative costs' but add extra costs to the typical consumer? what logic is there in that ?? think about that when your costs such as heating fuel, gas pump, maintenance fees go up next year in July 2010 ~
I know one thing for sure ... McGuinty won't be getting my vote ... hopefully Hudak will be in the Premier's office instead next year
I know one thing for sure ... McGuinty won't be getting my vote ... hopefully Hudak will be in the Premier's office instead next year
unimaginative2
Senior Member
For Hudak to be in the premier's office next year, you'd need a coup d'état. The next election isn't until 2012.
It's not administrative costs that they would save, Solaris. Businesses pay PST on the full value of goods all along their supply chain. For example, a car parts company pays 8% on the total value of the steel they buy, then the car assembler pays 8% of the full value of the car parts they buy, then the consumer is charged 8% of the car. It makes our exports much less competitive. By contrast, a value-added tax like the HST taxes only the value added by each person that processes the product. The car parts company would only pay tax on the difference between the price of their steel inputs and the price they charge for the finished car part.
Note that the savings in production costs can (and in this economic climate likely will) be passed along to the consumer, not only providing savings to the consumer but also making Ontario products more attractive compared with imports.
I love when right-wingers throw around terms like "tax grabber" as if McGuinty sits gleefully in his office cackling about all the taxes he's managing to collect. It's not like he personally benefits from any of this. It would be much easier for him to just slash taxes and run up the deficit. He'd probably soar in the polls. The health premium was the single most wrenching decision he had to make, but he was faced with an unexpectedly enormous deficit and unless he wanted to cut even more than Harris had, he had to do something. Besides, our taxes are still a fraction of what they were in the 80s, and weren't we oh-so-suffering back then. People have been trained since the Reagan era to demand ever-improving services and ever-dropping taxes. It is an incredibly difficult job for a politician to balance the two, and I think McGuinty has been doing a remarkable job.
It's not administrative costs that they would save, Solaris. Businesses pay PST on the full value of goods all along their supply chain. For example, a car parts company pays 8% on the total value of the steel they buy, then the car assembler pays 8% of the full value of the car parts they buy, then the consumer is charged 8% of the car. It makes our exports much less competitive. By contrast, a value-added tax like the HST taxes only the value added by each person that processes the product. The car parts company would only pay tax on the difference between the price of their steel inputs and the price they charge for the finished car part.
Note that the savings in production costs can (and in this economic climate likely will) be passed along to the consumer, not only providing savings to the consumer but also making Ontario products more attractive compared with imports.
I love when right-wingers throw around terms like "tax grabber" as if McGuinty sits gleefully in his office cackling about all the taxes he's managing to collect. It's not like he personally benefits from any of this. It would be much easier for him to just slash taxes and run up the deficit. He'd probably soar in the polls. The health premium was the single most wrenching decision he had to make, but he was faced with an unexpectedly enormous deficit and unless he wanted to cut even more than Harris had, he had to do something. Besides, our taxes are still a fraction of what they were in the 80s, and weren't we oh-so-suffering back then. People have been trained since the Reagan era to demand ever-improving services and ever-dropping taxes. It is an incredibly difficult job for a politician to balance the two, and I think McGuinty has been doing a remarkable job.
salvius
Active Member
I agree with everything except that the enormous deficit was unexpected.
It was a giant elephant in the room nobody wanted to touch: Conservatives for the obvious reason, and the Liberals because they knew they couldn't run a 'no new taxes' platform if the potential deficit was acknowledged (and acknowledging the obvious, that you sometimes have to raise taxes, never seems to be workable in political campaigns any longer) and because they couldn't 'prove' it.
kEiThZ
Superstar
My only quibble with his Health "Premium" was that it a regressive tax that went into general revenue. Why not just raise income taxes? It would not have been that big of an increase anyway.
unimaginative2
Senior Member
Oh the Liberals knew that the Tories were lying about not running a deficit, but they really did have absolutely no idea that it was that big. They were expecting about $2 billion and when they took over they were staring at an over $4 billion hole.
Of course it wouldn't have been that big, but people already went into absolute blind hysterics and he wanted to avoid explicitly breaking his promise as much as possible. It clearly would have been best to just put it into PIT, but this is a reasonable compromise. Hopefully they can fix it at some point in the future.
afransen
Senior Member
Not unless he runs for the leadership of the LPO. The next election is Oct 2011.
Also realise that taxes have to come from somewhere. Whether you pay through HST or through income taxes, the only thing that changes is your incentives. Are you similarly complaining about the cut in your provincial income tax?
Whoaccio
Senior Member
Why shouldn't they be taxed? If I get a guy to patch my roof or prune my trees I am supposed to pay VAT, so why would condo owners not be expected to pay the same? It's fair enough that people don't like taxes, but the idea everyone has that they should be exempted from whatever is ridiculous and just gives perverse incentives. For instance, exempting resale houses from VAT (aside from bastardizing economics) actively discourages investment in new housing stock, raising prices.
jaborandi
Active Member
Oh yes, lets bring back the Harris philosophy based on excessive personal greed and let's screw everybody else who isn't part of the privileged Conservative elite. Just how selfish, small minded, self centred, mean spirited and self serving can a party be?
Last edited:
Hydrogen
post-young
Condo fees apply to all condominiums - new or used.
unimaginative2
Senior Member
But there's no value added. That's the whole point. You're taxing people on value added. Maybe you could figure out some complicated way that you could get the tax you pay on renovating your house refunded if you can show that it increased the value of the house after you sell it, but that seems pretty needlessly complicated.
lordmandeep
Banned
I hate new taxes....
Sure Dalton is bad because he keeps taking more money from us, Hudak will give us back money but at a terrible cost.
we saw what happened during the Harris years with our schools and hospitals and other social programs.
Even a fiscal conservative like me would not want that to happen again.
Dalton likely will win a slim majority next time. I doubt he will lose many of the Toronto seats and he should keep his hometown of Ottawa.
He will however get hurt badly up North and in the London-Windsor area perhaps.
However until the Tories can win seats in like Brampton, Mississauga, Richmond Hill they will not win.
Sure Dalton is bad because he keeps taking more money from us, Hudak will give us back money but at a terrible cost.
we saw what happened during the Harris years with our schools and hospitals and other social programs.
Even a fiscal conservative like me would not want that to happen again.
Dalton likely will win a slim majority next time. I doubt he will lose many of the Toronto seats and he should keep his hometown of Ottawa.
He will however get hurt badly up North and in the London-Windsor area perhaps.
However until the Tories can win seats in like Brampton, Mississauga, Richmond Hill they will not win.
TwoDogs_39
Active Member
While I almost dislike McGuinty as a person, I think he's done a decent job as Premier. He hasn't made any huge blunders, and his most contentious move so far was the Health Tax, which is now an irrelevant issue. I actually admire him for have the audacity to increase tax revenues.
God forbid we have Hudak or another Harris-ite. I might move out of the province. Those were the worst years of Ontario so long as I've been alive (I'm only 20 =P). Does anyone need to be reminded how privatization, tax cuts and budget cuts impacted our health care, education, transportation systems, etc. etc?
God forbid we have Hudak or another Harris-ite. I might move out of the province. Those were the worst years of Ontario so long as I've been alive (I'm only 20 =P). Does anyone need to be reminded how privatization, tax cuts and budget cuts impacted our health care, education, transportation systems, etc. etc?