News   Apr 19, 2024
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New Transit Funding Sources

Yes, I do. Tory has come up with an actual situation to paying for new transit. A bold, honest and progressive situation. Unfortunately, I think enough people will fall for Ford's slogans saying he will just find "efficiencies" and whatnot.

Perhaps Tory's preface for the 2.5% cut across all boards/garbage outsourcing/digital announcement is an attempt to prepare for this? He could point out and say, "Look, I found actual efficiencies, and point out that Doug would (likely) have no concrete idea of what "efficiencies" are.

Of course, most people do vote based on their emotions, so you'll never know...
 
You obviously don't live at Humber Bay Shores. There isn't much retail in the area. The easy access to the Gardiner is what is convenient about this area, and is the only way to get to retail and shopping quickly (8 minutes to Sherway). Not to mention getting to kids soccer games, or hockey practises in the winter.

There was a public meeting about the Park Lawn transportation plan this evening. The issue of toll-resisters spilling onto local streets was raised in force.

The cheapest place to build a transponder bridge is right over the Humber river. But that lets the resisters get off at Lakeshore, or further west. If you move the limit of the toll zone further west, you have to build multiple transponder bridges..... no big deal IMHO, but definitely more expensive.

- Paul
 
You obviously don't live at Humber Bay Shores. There isn't much retail in the area. The easy access to the Gardiner is what is convenient about this area, and is the only way to get to retail and shopping quickly (8 minutes to Sherway). Not to mention getting to kids soccer games, or hockey practises in the winter.
lol...seriously?
https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Hu...57b008c094a7a5!8m2!3d43.6259939!4d-79.4774195

Btw: "Sherway" is not local.

What is beyond the Park Lawn plaza (which is one of the most visually bereft plazas I've ever seen, but the Metro there is comprehensive) is Lakeshore to the west of you, a heck of a lot closer than hopping on the Gardiner. or Sobeys up on the Queensway.
 
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Oh man, I've never felt so conservative in my life, and I've always been on the left: Stop trying to solve social, infrastructure, and other problems in society by taking more money away from people. If we can't build the world we want with the current resources available, we're done. There is NO reason to put tolls on existing highways. Put them on NEW highways and charge gold-plated tolls to pay for transit and other social goods. Even I would pay an outrageous amount of money once in a while to drive in a tunnel under the city. In order to successfully co-exist in this crowded world, we're going to have to build down as well as up. I say extend the Allen south to the Gardiner in a toll tunnel; continue the tunnel east under Richmond and Adelaide to the DVP. Either include the DRL in the tunnels or just use the tolls to fund the DRL under Queen. Done. That's two thirds of the DRL paid for and faster better underground highway connections that speed up traffic flows, get people home sooner, and improve quality of life. Boston is amazing in this regard, such a smart city. I can drive in and out of downtown Boston quickly and discretely, and I can take subways everywhere, even to an island airport. You have to pay to play, but let's do it without fleecing drivers on the current road network. Keep the tolls off of the (existing) Gardiner and DVP. Over time, based on an evolution of values, we'll be able to remove the existing Gardiner and reimagine Lakeshore Blvd. We would still have to offload the Gardiner in the west, so I would keep that offloading from the Gardiner into the city grid free, so that you can enter the city without paying tolls, but you can toll drivers who drive through it. Essentially you're taxing people who try to bypass the city. Most people who use these highways just use them to get in and out of the city anyway. And please stop painting the idea of tolling the existing highways as a cost that only affects outsiders. Torontonians pay the price for this as their options become more limited. If they want to go outside the city they live in for work or play, they're going to have to pay a lot more. That's not fair. People need those retreats to nature. We don't really have a Central Park, and even Manhattaners go to the local islands for retreats. Don't add to the cost of living in this city, or else it will be a price that only the rich can pay.
 
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Gantries on phase 2 of the 407 East won't be installed until 2020 in some parts when the last bit of the highway opens. You could easily extend that contract for more units.

The cost of gantries is peanuts. Don't worry about "extending" a totally separate contract. If Toronto plans to toll their two freeways it will be a massive order anyways.

Queen’s Park will not slam the brakes on Toronto Mayor John Tory’s plan to slap $2 tolls on the Don Valley Parkway and the Gardiner Expressway.

But Transportation Minister Steven Del Duca emphasized Thursday that the province will not impose similar road-pricing charges on Ontario’s 400-series highways.

“No. Not happening,” Del Duca told the Star. [...]
https://www.thestar.com/news/queens...ith-road-tolls--if-city-council-approves.html

lol... It's got to happen. Just not before the next provincial election.

The province will only convert HOV to HOV/HOT lanes, not put mandatory tolls on entire 400-series highways.

lol...seriously?
Btw: "Sherway" is not local.

What is beyond the Park Lawn plaza (which is one of the most visually bereft plazas I've ever seen, but the Metro there is comprehensive) is Lakeshore to the west of you, a heck of a lot closer than hopping on the Gardiner. or Sobeys up on the Queensway.
Sherway is "local" to half of Etobicoke and part of Mississauga, due to its excellent highway access. He was talking about retail shopping...not groceries.
 
So let's say Toronto and it's city council wants to toll the highway and the vote in favour and the Tories get in power, could they block it?

Yes. They can also completely take away Toronto's power to toll roads. The city is governed by the City of Toronto Act.

If they try that Toronto should send them the bill for all the unfunded projects this toll is supposed to pay for.

Yeah, just like you can send your Hydro bill to your MP's office and tell them to pay for it. And your hydro bill probably has a better chance of being paid for than the city's infrastructure projects.
 
JM has been tweeting about the benefits of using tolls as a congestion management tool. Is there a population of motorists that would welcome the tolls if it resulted in the reduction of traffic gridlock along the Gardiner and DVP? With the densification of the city, traffic will be getting a lot worse.
 
The problem with that premise is the notion that somehow motorists aren't people who actually live and work in our city region. Most of us are motorists and transit users at one time or another. We need to stop adding to the cost of living. Why aren't we getting creative solutions to solving our transportation challenges? I know they exist, but the people who hold the levers of power right now don't get it, so we're going to get more taxes layered on and continued inaction on the transit file.
 
The problem with that premise is the notion that somehow motorists aren't people who actually live and work in our city region. Most of us are motorists and transit users at one time or another. We need to stop adding to the cost of living. Why aren't we getting creative solutions to solving our transportation challenges?

Why don't we ask the North Koreans how they print counterfeit dollars by the millions, replicate their efforts here and use it to build transit?
 
I am actually not a big fan of road tolls. They seem to penalize a set of people for the sole reason they live in one particular area. I have always thought that gas taxes were a far better solution and far fairer.......the more you drive, the more you pay. It also encourages people to drive smaller cars to get better mileage which automatically also means lower emissions.

The problem is that you would have people in Toronto paying for everything nd the 40% of the DVP/Gardiner traffic which is 905 would pay nothing. A gas tax would only really work id it was done on a regional basis so everyone has to pay and people wouldn't be crossing a boundary to save a couple bucks. This is what Translink did..........the many gas taxes are region wide.

Unfortunately the people who don't want to pay tolls will also rebuke any gas taxes, especially drivers in the 905. They want better roads and transit but refuse to pay for it. When you have such obstructionist views then tolls seem to be the only alternative.
 
So let's say Toronto and it's city council wants to toll the highway and the vote in favour and the Tories get in power, could they block it? If they try that Toronto should send them the bill for all the unfunded projects this toll is supposed to pay for.

Yes, the province has complete and total control over everything and anything Toronto does. They created municipalities, like Toronto, to offload the overhead of maintaining the region.

It would only take a minor adjustment of the Toronto Act to eliminate the the ability to toll highways. Of course, it would look bad seeing as the Conservatives approved a 100 year highway toll and Liberals extended the coverage of that same highway.


In practice I think blocking Toronto from tolling would be political suicide. Most conservative municipalities like having control over their own future.
 
Some people on here are making it sound like Toronto is looking to replicate 407 prices in Toronto. Whatever the toll ends up being, it'll be pretty minimal in the grand scheme of things.

Also, I think at Council some type of compromise will come about where either they will be tolled during the peak periods and free off-peak, or tolled higher during the peak periods and less off-peak. $2 at 9AM is too low, IMO, but $2 at 1AM is a bit much.
 

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