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New St Lawrence Library (City of Toronto, ?s, ?)

ADRM

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Exciting news per Cressy: The City is going to build a new public library at 125 The Esplanade, the lot immediately to the south of St. Lawrence Market that currently houses the bubbled farmers' market. The branch was originally slated for the First Parliament site, but locating it here instead means it can move ahead more quickly than the Ontario Line TOC plan for FP would allow.

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We've had an extremely rare glitch where posts from this thread — #s 2 through 16 — got merged into one when I hit two buttons at once that I hadn't meant to, and our only option to restore them here is to present them all in this post. Very sorry, some of the names of who it was that posted some of the originals posts are gone, as are a few of the breaks between the posts. All of the text is there though, and I've recreated what I can.
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Tripwire:


Wow that's amazing! And a big benefit to me vs being closer to Parliament. I'm assuming it's going to be multi-story to be six times the size of the current library.

Exciting news per Cressy: The City is going to build a new public library at 125 The Esplanade, the lot immediately to the south of St. Lawrence Market that currently houses the bubbled farmers' market. The branch was originally slated for the First Parliament site, but locating it here instead means it can move ahead more quickly than the Ontario Line TOC plan for FP would allow.

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Northern Light?:


The underlying report to next week's TPL Board meeting can be found here:


This is replacing the 'Temporary North Market' which was planned to become a public park once the new North Market opened.
That park is now substantially nixed in favour of the Library idea.

The new library is now to be the new permanent location. So there will no longer be a proposed branch at the First Parliament site.
This also eliminates the capital budget line item for an interim branch.

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There's lots to like here, though the loss of the proposed park is unfortunate.

I also think this new proposed location will help serve a previously under served area.

\But it will also create a new one. There will be no libraries south of Gerrard east of Jarvis, to the Don River.
That's a very large gap.

Is there an municipal election this year? I hadn't noticed...

Good news for local residents - have we got any clear idea what site it would be?

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This is replacing the 'Temporary North Market' which was planned to become a public park once the new North Market opened.
Oh cool!

Given the size of the lot and the proposed size of the building, a standalone library here is likely to be about 3 stories. Seems kind of a shame to dedicate the lot to being just a library. I'd like to see a deal where they build some housing units on top - at least to bring it up to the height of the neighbouring buildings.

If it is to be just a standalone library building I really hope they give the architects a healthy budget.

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Northern Light:


Wow that's amazing! And a big benefit to me vs being closer to Parliament. I'm assuming it's going to be multi-story to be six times the size of the current library.

The footprint of the interim market is ~1100m2 or about 12000ft2

That would indicate a need for 3 floors to provide 30,000ft2

But, there is currently no sidewalk on the Wilton frontage, and under-sized sidewalk on The Esplanade frontage in particular, and Jarvis to a lesser degree.

Back of the envelope, I think we're looking at a footprint closer to 900m2 which means a 4th floor is plausible.

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yay for progress on library anything, boo for loss of the park and another blow to the corktown/canary community. I hope everything that’s getting built there now brings something to the area, because sherbourne/front will lose the library, and see a smaller footprint to the No Frills in coming years. In the plus column all the new towers on Front will bring in oversized private lobbies, so I guess we have that to look forward to.

I imagine a big part of this is just owning the land already, but man- that neighbourhood already has a huge draw to it. I’m not sure it needed another amenity. That little patch of park would have been a nice respite from the market.

I don't lament the loss of the park too much. David Crombie is almost across the street. Market Lane is getting updated soon as well. The current library is really very small for the neighbourhood especially with density coming into Front/Sherbourne area. It's too bad they couldn't keep original spot and make it bigger. I don't know how that bar between the library and Rabba's can be profitable!

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This is great news and I think there is still talk of adding housing on top. @Northern Light notes that Wilton has no sidewalk on the north side but you need to remember that most of the north side of Wilton is occupied by the tent and there have been long-time plans to NARROW Wilton (or even close it) so I think the building may be able to be larger than the actual site.

Iif Wilton has been without sidewalk this long, I can’t imagine a case being made against keeping the tent footprint.

Someone on FB suggested they do rooftop green space with link to the market balcony area, which is interesting. Even if the rooftop park is out, the link might be feasible.

I think the bar beside Rabba and the library likely benefits from the nearby community. It’s affordable food and drink in a neighbourhood getting pricier by the second.

I’d still held hope out for a sprawling library on First Parliament grounds that showcased the historical aspect of the site and acted as defacto community center. I presume the site will now bring the same street level charm and engagement the data centre has.

Does this kill or help the rumour of a community centre being built near the parliament slip? I remember hearing of possible library involvement there. But that project seems to have been a ghost.

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PinkGiraffe:


I absolutely HATE this proposal. HATE, HATE, HATE!! I was looking forward to more park land and green space. I live across the street and am already blocked in by various buildings and barely get a lick of sunshine. If the proposed building is anything over one storey, I'll have no sunshine at all. The Esplanade west of Jarvis will be a long, dark corridor of misery. How can they do this without consulting the residents? It's catastrophic.

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Smably:


Might as well demolish all the buildings so you can bask in glorious sunlight year round!

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Northern Light:


Might as well demolish all the buildings so you can bask in glorious sunlight year round!

To be fair; the site has been promised as parkland for at least a decade; the area is short of park space (the existing Crombie park system's severe wear and tear will attest to that.)

I also feel this is a sub-optimal location for this library when considering where other branches are situated, it will leave south-east downtown without any branches.

It's certainly overdue to get a proper district size library; and I don't think the trade here is the end of the world. Providing there is exceptional architecture and good streetscape/public realm, it will be a net positive vs both its current and former states (temporary market and green-p lot) .

But it's not the ideal solution; and there certainly aren't many other greening opportunities in close proximity.

The reaction of the poster here may be a bit over the top; but I think it's somewhat understandable just the same.

I also think it's entirely fair to say such a significant decision ought to have been the subject of community consultation, as I think should be the case whenever the City is going back on a promise to a community.

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Condovo:

Too bad the new North Market under construction can't accommodate a library.

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Pink Giraffe:

Might as well demolish all the buildings so you can bask in glorious sunlight year round!

Oh, gosh, yes, that's precisely what I'm proposing. Wow, you are astute. So glad you took the time to to comment.


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To be fair; the site has been promised as parkland for at least a decade; the area is short of park space (the existing Crombie park system's severe wear and tear will attest to that.)

I also feel this is a sub-optimal location for this library when considering where other branches are situated, it will leave south-east downtown without any branches.

It's certainly overdue to get a proper district size library; and I don't think the trade here is the end of the world. Providing there is exceptional architecture and good streetscape/public realm, it will be a net positive vs both its current and former states (temporary market and green-p lot) .

But it's not the ideal solution; and there certainly aren't many other greening opportunities in close proximity.

The reaction of the poster here may be a bit over the top; but I think it's somewhat understandable just the same.

I also think it's entirely fair to say such a significant decision ought to have been the subject of community consultation, as I think should be the case whenever the City is going back on a promise to a community.

I think the other thing too, is that the esplanade has trees- but it’s not like one big continuous strip of green space. It’s school yard asphalt for the block east of Jarvis. Then the wading pool. The playground between Princess and Berkeley has restrictions during school hours, and the block off Sherbourne is baseball diamond/dog park , not exactly picnic territory. On the other hand, I suppose I just reeled off an impressive list of varied amenities any neighbourhood would be happy to have, nevermind with the addition of a brand new library.

Buuuut I’m also mindful that the Borg spaceship that is Time & Space alone is bringing in about 2,000+ new residents onto the esplanade, so maybe a little breathing room wouldn’t hurt.

Anyhow, I suppose what’s done will be done.
 
My ideal fantasy scenario for the new library would have been this building, but the city would have had to try and wrangle it out of the provinces hands which would have likely been expensive. It’s close enough to the original planned location at first parliament but would have added a lot to the west don lands area. Unfortunately however, it looks like the new scheme is here to stay since it’s funded. All I can really hope is that it doesn’t go to a big corporate Toronto architecture firm, and that the city doesn’t value engineer it to hell and back during construction.

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The footprint of the interim market is ~1100m2 or about 12000ft2

That would indicate a need for 3 floors to provide 30,000ft2

But, there is currently no sidewalk on the Wilton frontage, and under-sized sidewalk on The Esplanade frontage in particular, and Jarvis to a lesser degree.

Back of the envelope, I think we're looking at a footprint closer to 900m2 which means a 4th floor is plausible.
The new library that is under construction in Ottawa is 140,000 SF over 5 floors so 30,000 could be done over 2 floors but 3 floors would not be out of the question.
 
I absolutely HATE this proposal. HATE, HATE, HATE!! I was looking forward to more park land and green space. I live across the street and am already blocked in by various buildings and barely get a lick of sunshine. If the proposed building is anything over one storey, I'll have no sunshine at all. The Esplanade west of Jarvis will be a long, dark corridor of misery. How can they do this without consulting the residents? It's catastrophic.
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Given everything that's in David Crombie (including actual picnic tables on the block directly east of Sherbourne!) I'm not sure a tent-sized block of park/green space would make much difference to the neighbourhood, while a big shiny new library would. Of course, a bit more to the east would mean it could serve Corktown, which it can't really do when it's at Jarvis. We stop at the St. Lawrence library several times a week with the kid, because it's close. When it was closed and our alternatives were Parliament/Gerrard or Queen/Saulter, we never went.
 
Given everything that's in David Crombie (including actual picnic tables on the block directly east of Sherbourne!) I'm not sure a tent-sized block of park/green space would make much difference to the neighbourhood, while a big shiny new library would. Of course, a bit more to the east would mean it could serve Corktown, which it can't really do when it's at Jarvis. We stop at the St. Lawrence library several times a week with the kid, because it's close. When it was closed and our alternatives were Parliament/Gerrard or Queen/Saulter, we never went.
I was going to say the same thing tbh. I am all for quality parkspace, personally but is this area really lacking?
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A lot of people live there, and the parks are very well used (St. James and Berczy can both be extremely busy when the weather is nice), but given the size of the space in question, I doubt it would make much difference to that.
 
I was going to say the same thing tbh. I am all for quality parkspace, personally but is this area really lacking?
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Sugar Wharf Phase 2 with its massive towers are bringing over 3,000 units to the area alone. Maybe if we time and ticket Sugar beach everyone will get a turn. This patch isn’t much in the grand scheme of this but it would add space.

We’ve got a nice looking timber building going up south of the Gardiner that’s supposed to be office space. With concerns about folks WFH why not just put the library in there? Or find a home in any of projects along the waterfront in the area?

Is there any reason to believe that this won’t become a tower of some sort?
 
Sugar Wharf Phase 2 with its massive towers are bringing over 3,000 units to the area alone. Maybe if we time and ticket Sugar beach everyone will get a turn. This patch isn’t much in the grand scheme of this but it would add space.

We’ve got a nice looking timber building going up south of the Gardiner that’s supposed to be office space. With concerns about folks WFH why not just put the library in there? Or find a home in any of projects along the waterfront in the area?

Is there any reason to believe that this won’t become a tower of some sort?
And so too is there parkland spread out across the entire waterfront; love park, wave deck park, HTO park, Sherbourne slip etc. That doesn't include the new Portlands park.

Factually yes, having this as park space would add space. But I think the argument here is that a new high quality library is more valuable given there is even less of that in the neighbourhood.

In terms of T3 Bayside, (the timber building) I believe it's primarily leased already. You can't just kick out tenants in favour of a library which, separately, is typically a chance for some interesting architectural design. They are usually purpose build spaces due to their unique use cases.

The reason to believe this won't become a tower of some sort is because the city has identified it as being a site for the library.
 
Reason I ask about the tower is that I can’t see the density crowd letting a municipal project like this pass without trying to get a couple storeys added in the name of affordable housing, and we’ve got a municipal election coming up where both Cressey and KWT have opened up their progressive seats to new contenders so I can see promises being made.

Also. At this point, I don’t rule out anything in Toronto building projects. Todays lease is tomorrows court case. Anything can and will happen. There’s no way you could have told me 10yrs ago that the book depository on Parliament would swallow up the Sherbourne Library and move to the parking lot behind St. Lawrence Market, but here we are. For all we know the next plan will be to float this branch on pontoons in the lake.
 
From what I've seen, it's pretty unlikely they will build any housing on this site, just a 2-3 storey library building. But a 50 storey tower with hundreds of affordable units would be a better option.
 

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