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New St Lawrence Library (City of Toronto, ?s, ?)

Sounds like overburdening the site, so again- go back to a parliament square park site, slap a tower on top and make this lot a park again. Mihevc is a straight shooter right? He’s not trying to play games to move it is he?
The first Parliament site cannot be used for up to a decade. That's why the Library needed to find a new site.
 
This branch project appears as funded, in the new, proposed, 10-year Capital Plan for Toronto Public Library.

Only $100,000 will flow in 2023, suggest major design/consultation in 2024.

Construction funding shows a timeline of 2026-2030. 🤨

I think there's a more than a Library in this project now for sure. 5 years would be a ridiculous construction timeline for a stand-alone library.

TPL's budget for this project shows as just a tad over 40M. But their budget will not reflect any other tenants/co-proponents work.
 
For those who do not have e-access..

Toronto Mayor Olivia Chow has sent a clear message while in office: She wants to build housing. This year she has good opportunity to do so in the St. Lawrence neighbourhood. But she’ll need to bang some heads together in order to get building.

The site in question is a parking lot behind St. Lawrence Market, poised to be a new branch of the Toronto Public Library. But it should be more. It could also host a tower full of mixed-income apartments, all designed by a world-leading design team. Unfortunately, a tangle of city policies – and objections from library staff – stand in the way. Mayoral power can and should cut through the obstacles.

In 2022, the library decided on this 1,058-square-metre site, at 125 The Esplanade, for a new flagship branch. Then city council asked its real estate agency, CreateTO, whether other things such as affordable housing could be added.

A staff decision is expected in the next few months – and it’ll probably be the wrong one. “Certainly, there will be other things on that site,” CreateTO chief executive Vic Gupta said in an interview. “But I think housing will be tricky. … There are many obstacles to combining a library and tower on such a small site.”

The short version is that the city has many priorities, some of them subjective, contradictory or counterproductive, that need to be overruled. There are always reasons to say no.

As an alternative, let’s begin with a yes: CreateTO combines a library branch with a high-rise tower, mixing market housing and subsidized rentals. The site could fit right into the city’s Housing Now program. Recently, Chicago completed three beautiful affordable housing and library complexes, which I wrote about in 2019. So did the old City of Toronto, when it put apartments atop the Northern District Library 40 years ago.

So what’s the problem now?

Mr. Gupta declined to list all the obstacles that are under discussion. But it’s easy to guess. City Urban Design and Heritage staff won’t want to see a high-rise here in the middle of a Heritage Conservation District. Cue a mayoral shrug.

Listen to selectionCity staff seem to be using technical issues as pretexts. Last week, I asked CreateTO whether the site could expand to take over an adjacent block of Wilton Street, which currently has no driveways on it. As it turns out, CreateTO had already thought of this, but there are service and utility infrastructure that would require relocation and create additional costs, spokesperson Susan O’Neill said in an e-mail.

So build a lot of apartments to pay the bills and move the pipes.

Or build above them. The 1990s co-op housing right next door seems to have done the latter: A two-storey archway runs right through the building.

Then there’s the library’s own wish list. Staff plan for this branch to be 30,000 square feet, with a large footprint. According to the library’s own guidelines, a facility like this should preferably be on one floor. Spokesperson Ana-Maria Critchley declined to comment further.

In this case, the library will be at least three levels. With a tower sharing the site, it could be pushed up to five. The library’s silence suggests management are unhappy with that idea.

But they are not infallible. Too often, administrators’ lists of “requirements” for a building are treated as absolute and untouchable. They aren’t. Any set of spaces and activities can be reshuffled – sometimes for the better.

And for that, you need good architects. Happily, CreateTO knows how to find them. They ran a successful competition for the St. Lawrence Centre for the Arts, attracting an excellent international short list of designers. In my view, the worst design was led by Diamond Schmitt Architects (who work often for the library) and the winner by Hariri Pontarini Architects (who are now redesigning the Royal Ontario Museum). The competition process works. Do that again. Find an elegant solution.

It would be fitting to deliver a beautiful, ambitious and dense new tower and library to the St. Lawrence neighbourhood. That collection of buildings, from the 1970s and 1980s, delivers mixed income housing for thousands, but it was built when downtown Toronto was full of empty land that was effectively free. Those days are over, and to continue the legacy of St. Lawrence, the city’s government needs to think much bigger, much faster and put its heads together. Forcefully, if necessary.
 
For those who do not have e-access..

Back to our usual programming here, Alex and I will differ.

I'm not opposed to housing on this site, but I understand the technical concerns and their cost implications, and how that will take money away from other projects, including other housing projects.

The idea of doing something just because one can, damn the costs doesn't work for me.

In 2022, the library decided on this 1,058-square-metre site, at 125 The Esplanade, for a new flagship branch. Then city council asked its real estate agency, CreateTO, whether other things such as affordable housing could be added.

This isn't correct. The sentence should read, "in 2022 the Library had this site imposed on them, as their preferred site was absconded with by the province."

A staff decision is expected in the next few months – and it’ll probably be the wrong one. “Certainly, there will be other things on that site,” CreateTO chief executive Vic Gupta said in an interview. “But I think housing will be tricky. … There are many obstacles to combining a library and tower on such a small site.”

Vic is correct. Alex is not.

The short version is that the city has many priorities, some of them subjective, contradictory or counterproductive

This much is true.

, that need to be overruled.

The problem that Alex will fail to recognize is that once you allow an authoritarian impulse to rule; you must always allow that.........and that is how Doug Ford moves to allow development of the Greenbelt or demolition of heritage, or gut environmental protection etc.

The Mayor's approach involves listening and making trades to secure a measure of buy-in.

She'll need that too.........some big items are coming down the pipe.

As an alternative, let’s begin with a yes: CreateTO combines a library branch with a high-rise tower, mixing market housing and subsidized rentals. The site could fit right into the city’s Housing Now program. Recently, Chicago completed three beautiful affordable housing and library complexes, which I wrote about in 2019. So did the old City of Toronto, when it put apartments atop the Northern District Library 40 years ago.

I have no issue w/the idea of a Library and housing together, you needn't go back to Northern District either, 299 Campell is going to have the relocated Perth/Dupont Branch on its ground floor, hopefully opening this year.

***

However, no one should ever suggest Northern District was a good or attractive design, as it is neither. The idea was fine, the execution poor.

So what’s the problem now?

Those sites are vastly different sizes. Northern District sits on ~60,000ft2 while the St. Lawrence site is less than 12,000ft2.

Listen to selectionCity staff seem to be using technical issues as pretexts. Last week, I asked CreateTO whether the site could expand to take over an adjacent block of Wilton Street, which currently has no driveways on it. As it turns out, CreateTO had already thought of this, but there are service and utility infrastructure that would require relocation and create additional costs, spokesperson Susan O’Neill said in an e-mail.

So build a lot of apartments to pay the bills and move the pipes.

No developer would ever make any money with Alex running the numbers.

Then there’s the library’s own wish list. Staff plan for this branch to be 30,000 square feet, with a large footprint. According to the library’s own guidelines, a facility like this should preferably be on one floor. Spokesperson Ana-Maria Critchley declined to comment further.

In this case, the library will be at least three levels. With a tower sharing the site, it could be pushed up to five. The library’s silence suggests management are unhappy with that idea.

Nothing wrong with a tall library, except that, it means elevators, at least 2; and that's in addition to a separate set of elevators for any housing above......all that eats into the viable ft2.

30,000ft2, on this site, is nominally a bare minimum of 3 floors, but once you add in elevators and the site area lost to new, wide sidewalks, you're at 4 without missing a beat, with no housing on top, the added infra to support residential might actually push it to six.

That collection of buildings, from the 1970s and 1980s, delivers mixed income housing for thousands, but it was built when downtown Toronto was full of empty land that was effectively free. Those days are over, and to continue the legacy of St. Lawrence, the city’s government needs to think much bigger, much faster and put its heads together. Forcefully, if necessary.

In a word, "No"
 
I'm pretty sure a building of any height would cast a shadow on the new Market Lane park that the city would find unacceptable.
 
I was mostly joking about how the planners will find some way to make sure no housing is built on this site. The excuse might be elevators, loading docks, shadows, character of the neighbourhood, etc. There’s always something.
 
Back to our usual programming here, Alex and I will differ.

I'm not opposed to housing on this site, but I understand the technical concerns and their cost implications, and how that will take money away from other projects, including other housing projects.

The idea of doing something just because one can, damn the costs doesn't work for me.



This isn't correct. The sentence should read, "in 2022 the Library had this site imposed on them, as their preferred site was absconded with by the province."



Vic is correct. Alex is not.



This much is true.



The problem that Alex will fail to recognize is that once you allow an authoritarian impulse to rule; you must always allow that.........and that is how Doug Ford moves to allow development of the Greenbelt or demolition of heritage, or gut environmental protection etc.

The Mayor's approach involves listening and making trades to secure a measure of buy-in.

She'll need that too.........some big items are coming down the pipe.



I have no issue w/the idea of a Library and housing together, you needn't go back to Northern District either, 299 Campell is going to have the relocated Perth/Dupont Branch on its ground floor, hopefully opening this year.

***

However, no one should ever suggest Northern District was a good or attractive design, as it is neither. The idea was fine, the execution poor.



Those sites are vastly different sizes. Northern District sits on ~60,000ft2 while the St. Lawrence site is less than 12,000ft2.



No developer would ever make any money with Alex running the numbers.



Nothing wrong with a tall library, except that, it means elevators, at least 2; and that's in addition to a separate set of elevators for any housing above......all that eats into the viable ft2.

30,000ft2, on this site, is nominally a bare minimum of 3 floors, but once you add in elevators and the site area lost to new, wide sidewalks, you're at 4 without missing a beat, with no housing on top, the added infra to support residential might actually push it to six.



In a word, "No"
Yes, this site is simply too small for a boatload of uses if one of them is to be a district library, and since it's their site, anything else should have to fit their program for the TPL without incurring extra costs for the TPL, but trying to put housing here as well will drive the costs up for every party, so the question is by how much, and what budget it would come from. It would help to know what the extra costs would be to all parties…

…but before knowing that, what @Northern Light is saying makes sense to me: build the housing on a less constrained site, where there aren't so many complications, and therefore more typical costs. Ultimately the City will have to decide where it makes most sense to spend it's affordable housing dollars.

42
 
Yes, this site is simply too small for a boatload of uses if one of them is to be a district library, and since it's their site, anything else should have to fit their program for the TPL without incurring extra costs for the TPL, but trying to put housing here as well will drive the costs up for every party, so the question is by how much, and what budget it would come from. It would help to know what the extra costs would be to all parties…

It’s entirely possible to put a high-rise on the site, and generate enough revenue to make up for extra construction and operating costs. There are precedents in Toronto for every specific point I mention in the piece.

It’s not “the library’s site.” It is the city’s site.

The argument here seems to be that the library’s spatial requirements are absolute, and that it’s impossible to deliver a good district library with any sort of compromise.

That’s never true, for any organization. The Toronto library has no special genius in this regard.
 
It’s entirely possible to put a high-rise on the site, and generate enough revenue to make up for extra construction and operating costs. There are precedents in Toronto for every specific point I mention in the piece.

It’s not “the library’s site.” It is the city’s site.

The argument here seems to be that the library’s spatial requirements are absolute, and that it’s impossible to deliver a good district library with any sort of compromise.

That’s never true, for any organization. The Toronto library has no special genius in this regard.

That is not the argument.

Though, certainly, building a functional library is a prerequisite.

The argument is that the added costs of delivering housing on this very space constrained site, not only compromise the library but will deliver housing at considerably greater cost than on many easier to build sites.

In so doing, in a world of finite budgets, fewer affordable housing units will be built because of this.

The argument is not that it can't be done, it's that that would be a sub-optimal use of resources.
 
For the record, our HNTO volunteers massed this 125 ESPLANDE site 3-storey Library w/ 27-storeys of housing above in April 2022.

It was early work based on the HOUSING NOW funding models at that time. It would likely need to be a little taller now.

There is 100% a smart (and one-time) opportunity to put hundreds of new units of rental housing above the Library site, but it will only happen if the Mayor's office is willing to exert some pressure on the Library Board, City Planning, CreateTO - and the local Councillor / Deputy-Mayor.
125_ESPLANADE_DRAFT_30_Storey_Massing.png

1708478852870.png


1708478700521.png
 
From a "site constraints" point-of-view, 125 ESPLANADE has similar Roads, Parks & Small Footprint as the 931 YONGE site which CreateTO has proposed (after some of our volunteers' encouragement) as a 32-storey mixed-use building...

 
From a "site constraints" point-of-view, 125 ESPLANADE has similar Roads, Parks & Small Footprint as the 931 YONGE site which CreateTO has proposed (after some of our volunteers' encouragement) as a 32-storey mixed-use building...


The comparison is inexact, but let's work with it...........the floor plate size proposed at 931 is 650m2.

The floor plate your volunteers have proposed above is 800m2.

I'm going to suggest that casting a large shadow on Market St. and the St. Lawrence Market patios, in the late morning, through early afternoon is not ideal; and that with an 800m2 floor plate you're not getting there.

At 650m2 this may become a bit more viable, maybe, but the resulting height is a further 7 storeys to make up for lost space, but probably 10s to make up for the cost of going taller, so now you're at 40s; because the podium isn't going to be large as that proposal envisions, the library will need to be 5 floors, at least, so now we're at 42 storeys. We'll see how it unfolds, but I'm challenged to see this as making sense.
 

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