My abortion talk with the kids

[Admiral Beez]

My teenage daughter and I were driving home today and listening to Trump at the abortion rally in Washington today. My daughter asked me if I was pro life or pro choice. I had to say I was both, but the latter trumps (no pun intended) the former. I told her that I can’t accept that a baby not yet born isn’t a person, and mentioned that I remember seeing her on the ultrasound when she was perhaps two or three months along, seeing her little heartbeat, toes, growing features, etc, and I said never before she was born did her mother and I not consider her our baby, a person. But, I then said if her mother had decided to abort her, that would have been, and must be her right regardless of my or anyone’s preferences, it‘s every woman’s right to decide over her body. My daughter then said, she can support abortion for teens or rape, incest, etc, to which I replied we must not try to decide what reasons for abortion are acceptable, since this means we have to equally decide what reasons are unacceptable. This cannot be, as the reason for abortion is none of our business, except for informational purposes for improving public policy. I said this last part is where prolife people need to focus, that if you want to reduce abortions you need to find out why the mother wants one and then try to fill the need. For example in the US, with only six weeks maturnity leave, massive healthcare costs, etc. plus the US and Canadian massive cost of raising a child and the destruction it can have on a young woman’s educational and career prospects. Also there’s the lack of sex education, access to birth control and girls‘ self esteem and desperation issues that lead to pregnancies. My daughter then asked me why the prolife people in the US don’t push for social programs and societal change to persuade women to keep their babies. I told her a story I’d read, where a social conservative said if they saw a woman about to toss a baby off a bridge, and stopped her, the social conservative person wouldn't then be expected to raise that baby. That, I explained is why I think US conservatives are prolife but not necessarily pro baby, or pro people. I concluded the chat by saying again that I’m pro life, and that while I think it’s a baby being aborted, but that aborting that baby is entirely the woman’s choice, it’s her body, and none of my or anyone’s business. So, that’s my dad moment of the week...

 

[Johnny Au]

Here's a map:

Blue: Allowed on request.
Green: Allowed for maternal life and health, rape, fetal defects, and socioeconomic factors.
Yellow: Prohibited with exceptions for maternal life and health, rape, and fetal defects.
Brown: Prohibited with exceptions for maternal life and health, and rape.
Orange: Prohibited with exceptions for maternal life and health (mental and physical).
Red: Prohibited with exceptions for maternal life.
Black: Prohibited in any circumstances.
Grey: No information.

@Admiral Beez What colour on the scale do your views represent the best?

Me, I consider my views on abortion to be between green and blue (as long as the request isn't completely frivolous and the abortion doesn't happen after the second trimester without the reasons covered by the green).

 

[Admiral Beez]

Blue: Allowed on request
Yellow: Prohibited with exceptions for maternal life and health, rape, and fetal defects.
Brown: Prohibited with exceptions for maternal life and health, and rape.
Orange: Prohibited with exceptions for maternal life and health (mental and physical).
Red: Prohibited with exceptions for maternal life.
Black: Prohibited in any circumstances.
Grey: No information.

@Admiral Beez What colour on the scale do your views represent the best?

Blue. As I said above, if we start deciding on permissible justifications for abortions we must then declare other justifications as not permissible. But in the latter case, do we tie women down and force them to give birth? And who are we as the State to decide what justifications are permissible? It‘s the woman’s body, she can have an abortion at anytime for any reason, or for no reason whatsoever.

That’s what we have in Canada today, as a pro life dad looking out for my daughters it’s the right move. I can’t support a Canada what would try to control my daughters’ bodies. If they become pregnant at any period in their lives I will offer them my full support to the point of if they wish myself and their mother taking on temporary or permanent custody of their child, but if they want to terminate, that’s their choice, as it must be.

 

[Videodrome]

As someone who is adopted, they really need to make it easier and less expensive to do. I am told that back when I was born and given up for adoption, it was a lot easier and certainly not as pricy to go through the process.

I would be in the blue group, as I am pro-choice in most instances. My issue with pro-lifers is that most of them are only pro-birth. Once the baby is born, it is considered a burden on the system and not cared about anymore. Birth control, including the pill, should also be free on request like in many European countries.

 

[BurlOak]

But, I then said if her mother had decided to abort her, that would have been, and must be her right regardless of my or anyone’s preferences, it‘s every woman’s right to decide over her body.

. . . . and the other body that's within her. You just acknowledged that it's a separate human being within her with unique DNA.

My daughter then said, she can support abortion for teens or rape, incest, etc, to which I replied we must not try to decide what reasons for abortion are acceptable, since this means we have to equally decide what reasons are unacceptable. This cannot be, as the reason for abortion is none of our business, except for informational purposes for improving public policy.

Just like when a human life is lost. It's impossible to determine the reason for the death - be it 1st degree, 2nd degree murder, manslaughter, negligence causing death, accident.
We must not try to decide what reasons (for the death) - the result is a death and the consequences should be the same.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

My teenage daughter and I were driving home today and listening to Trump at the abortion rally in Washington today. My daughter asked me if I was pro life or pro choice. I had to say I was both, but the latter trumps (no pun intended) the former. I told her that I can’t accept that a baby not yet born isn’t a person, and mentioned that I remember seeing her on the ultrasound when she was perhaps two or three months along, seeing her little heartbeat, toes, growing features, etc, and I said never before she was born did her mother and I not consider her our baby, a person. But, I then said if her mother had decided to abort her, that would have been, and must be her right regardless of my or anyone’s preferences, it‘s every woman’s right to decide over her body. My daughter then said, she can support abortion for teens or rape, incest, etc, to which I replied we must not try to decide what reasons for abortion are acceptable, since this means we have to equally decide what reasons are unacceptable. This cannot be, as the reason for abortion is none of our business, except for informational purposes for improving public policy. I said this last part is where prolife people need to focus, that if you want to reduce abortions you need to find out why the mother wants one and then try to fill the need. For example in the US, with only six weeks maturnity leave, massive healthcare costs, etc. plus the US and Canadian massive cost of raising a child and the destruction it can have on a young woman’s educational and career prospects. Also there’s the lack of sex education, access to birth control and girls‘ self esteem and desperation issues that lead to pregnancies. My daughter then asked me why the prolife people in the US don’t push for social programs and societal change to persuade women to keep their babies. I told her a story I’d read, where a social conservative said if they saw a woman about to toss a baby off a bridge, and stopped her, the social conservative person wouldn't then be expected to raise that baby. That, I explained is why I think US conservatives are prolife but not necessarily pro baby, or pro people. I concluded the chat by saying again that I’m pro life, and that while I think it’s a baby being aborted, but that aborting that baby is entirely the woman’s choice, it’s her body, and none of my or anyone’s business. So, that’s my dad moment of the week...

Pro-life? The US conservatives couldn't even put together a universal health program that protect existing lives regardless of economic means. They are not in any position to talk about the sanctity of life - in fact, I'd argue they are hostile to the sanctity of life.

Abortion should always be an option for women, though there is nothing wrong with encouraging contraceptives and morning after pills as the first line of prevention against unwanted pregnancies - it is still a medical procedure afterall, and economically less efficient.

AoD

 

[Northern Light]

. . . . with unique DNA.

That's true of the sperm and egg before they meet.

Just like when a human life is lost. It's impossible to determine the reason for the death - be it 1st degree, 2nd degree murder, manslaughter, negligence causing death, accident.
We must not try to decide what reasons (for the death) - the result is a death and the consequences should be the same.

That is such an incredibly absurd statement, even for you, which really is saying something.

Of course its possible to discern a motive, or the absence of one (accidental/negligent death) which is exactly what those charge distinctions exist.

As in all areas of criminal justice, there are also other reasons to consider varying a sentence, including age, risk-to-reoffend, whether this party was a repeat offender etc. etc.

I find 3 key areas of flaw in your arguments (all of them); they're based on faulty assumptions, you draw incorrect conclusions and you are in capable of nuance.

 

[salsa]

Pro-life? The US conservatives couldn't even put together a universal health program that protect existing lives regardless of economic means. They are not in any position to talk about the sanctity of life - in fact, I'd argue they are hostile to the sanctity of life.

They are really more like pro-fetus than pro-life, and their care for its well-being ends at the moment that it is born.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

They are really more like pro-fetus than pro-life, and their care for its well-being ends at the moment that it is born.

Of course they are. It's all thoughts and prayers after birth.

AoD

 

[BurlOak]

That's true of the sperm and egg before they meet.

Of course I meant unique human DNA within +/-46 Chromosomes.

I find 3 key areas of flaw in your arguments (all of them); they're based on faulty assumptions, you draw incorrect conclusions and you are in capable of nuance.

You did no such thing.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Funny how people are talking about "unique:human DNA" and shedding tears over it while actively encourage and support parties and policies that are deterimental to individuals with unique human DNA, life-experience and self-awareness.

Humanity is not simply defined by biological makeup - it is the least important part of it.

AoD

 

[tiffer24]

"Every sperm is sacred
Every sperm is great
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate"

RIP Terry Jones.

 

[lenaitch]

My teenage daughter and I were driving home today and listening to Trump at the abortion rally in Washington today. My daughter asked me if I was pro life or pro choice. I had to say I was both, but the latter trumps (no pun intended) the former. I told her that I can’t accept that a baby not yet born isn’t a person, and mentioned that I remember seeing her on the ultrasound when she was perhaps two or three months along, seeing her little heartbeat, toes, growing features, etc, and I said never before she was born did her mother and I not consider her our baby, a person. But, I then said if her mother had decided to abort her, that would have been, and must be her right regardless of my or anyone’s preferences, it‘s every woman’s right to decide over her body. My daughter then said, she can support abortion for teens or rape, incest, etc, to which I replied we must not try to decide what reasons for abortion are acceptable, since this means we have to equally decide what reasons are unacceptable. This cannot be, as the reason for abortion is none of our business, except for informational purposes for improving public policy. I said this last part is where prolife people need to focus, that if you want to reduce abortions you need to find out why the mother wants one and then try to fill the need. For example in the US, with only six weeks maturnity leave, massive healthcare costs, etc. plus the US and Canadian massive cost of raising a child and the destruction it can have on a young woman’s educational and career prospects. Also there’s the lack of sex education, access to birth control and girls‘ self esteem and desperation issues that lead to pregnancies. My daughter then asked me why the prolife people in the US don’t push for social programs and societal change to persuade women to keep their babies. I told her a story I’d read, where a social conservative said if they saw a woman about to toss a baby off a bridge, and stopped her, the social conservative person wouldn't then be expected to raise that baby. That, I explained is why I think US conservatives are prolife but not necessarily pro baby, or pro people. I concluded the chat by saying again that I’m pro life, and that while I think it’s a baby being aborted, but that aborting that baby is entirely the woman’s choice, it’s her body, and none of my or anyone’s business. So, that’s my dad moment of the week...

Regardless of your perspective, kudos for having the conversation.

 

[SunriseChampion]

That's true of the sperm and egg before they meet.

Oh, ffs...why you always have to complicate things? ??

 

[SunriseChampion]

Humanity is not simply defined by biological makeup - it is the least important part of it.

That's debatable....the last assertion here, that is. Actually.....the entire premise is highly debatable. Your psyche and "soul" being nothing more than some chemical fluff....sorry to burst everyone's bubble. ?