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Most Dangerous Neighbourhood(s)?

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Tdot_one

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#1 - Let's not get into race.

#2 - You're truly completely nuts to think Oakland (or any other major American city) compares to Toronto. The murder rate in Oakland is 9.5/100,000. In Toronto, it's 0.68/100,000. The rate is 14x higher in Oakland. Many other cities exceed Oakland's rate. Every major American city is at least 2x Toronto.

Source (multiple - view post) : http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=169703

Image URL if not viewable: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3409/3577017827_a66eaf4dc1_o.jpg

3577017827_a66eaf4dc1_o.jpg


#3 - Toronto is not a dangerous city, even the sketchy parts are okay. Not sure what agenda it serves to suggest otherwise.
Oh please. I am Black, so do that understand that racism involves backing a racial hierarchy. While in the states, white people point this out annoyingly, white people in Toronto will ignore this issue and claim "paradise".

That is racism. Just a different flavor.

I ask, why must race be ignored? You know, I can answer that question. Regardless of what one thinks, murders in Toronto are heavily black and the fact that is ignored tells us how much racism runs this city.

Before we continue, let's understand that crime exist has to do with socio-economic issues. It's very troubling that high mortality rate due to murder amongst the black Torontonians due to crime is still ignored in the academia. Young black men form the majority because of systemic issues and that explains why there is a push for Afrocentric schools.

Having settled that, the second question: what do you know about Oakland? Crime and race is heavily correlated in that highly segregated city. The only "integrated" areas are those that are being gentrified (becoming whiter). The probability of a white person getting touched is not that high, because both groups live in different areas. San Francisco is not comparable to Oakland for obvious reasons.

PS: What does "danger" mean? The amount of danger perceived by white people? If that is the case, US is quite safe and that includes Oakland. I suggest you stroll around an Oakland-based forum and what I've said would be echoed by white Americans. The reasons why crime arises may differ, though.

PPS: Toronto's murder rate is approaching 3 per 100,000. It isn't high, clustering with NYC with 7, but statistics that isn't interpreted means shit.
 
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Tdot_one

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I would agree, I have felt on edge around some shady people here and there, but thats about it. The most nervous I have felt was buying liquor at a corner grocery/hardware store in south Chicago. I could almost taste the hatred being focused on me.

We are lucky here in Toronto.
How about North Chicago? The socio-economic situation in South Chicago has a lot to do with race relations. It seems there is less civility here than in Chicago!

I don't remember many Blacks robbing or murdering whites. On the other hand, within our community, plenty of times. Consider that when walking around neighborhoods outside of North Chicago.

Look at these:

http://www.cityrating.com/citycrime.asp?city=Oakland&state=CA

http://www.cityrating.com/citycrime.asp?city=Chicago&state=IL

Larceny or theft isn't much different from the rest of US. That's the most important indicator in our discussion. The majority of US is certainly not those big cities and are more similar to the white suburbs of Los Angeles. The truth is the problems start arising when living in violent neighborhoods.
 

harsh

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Take a look at this:

http://www.cityrating.com/citycrime.asp?city=Detroit&state=MI

Theft rate is LOWER than the nation average. Quit acting like there is something "dangerous" coming at you. I think Boondocks demonstrates it well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0B9QGrpdu5Y


If something "dangerous" is coming at me, why would I take comfort knowing that the theft rate in Detroit is lower than the national average when the murder rate in the same city is 5x the national average???:rolleyes:

your comments suggests crime correlates with race. Where there's blacks there is crime where there's whites there's little to no crime. This is simply not true and is proven so by your same web site:

salt lake city, Utah only 4% black - murder rate is higher than national average
Hampton, new hamsphire only 0.39% black - rape is 2.34x the national average
Anchorage, Alaska population of 271 000, 234 forcible rape crimes almost 3x national average only 6% of population is black can you tell me these crimes predominately involve the black population??.....I digress.....

The point is this. The thread title is "the most dangerous neighourhoods", race is irrelevant, you are the first and hopefully the last to reference race. Toronto is nowhere close to other US cities, in fact not even close to other Canadian cities.

Yes the murder rate amongst black youths in Toronto IS alarming and should not be ignored. Maybe you should create a thread about this subject, I and others too, would gladly participate in this matter.
 

mangasparky

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Wow. Is this my fault? We were all giving examples of where we have felt nervous in a neighbourhood. I gave my worst example being south Chicago in an attempt to say that Toronto wasn't even on my radar.

Holy crap.
 

movieguy

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your comments suggests crime correlates with race. Where there's blacks there is crime where there's whites there's little to no crime. This is simply not true and is proven so by your same web site:

I concur. Crime/violent crime stems from financial hardship such as low income households and substandard living, not race. In prague, people aren't afraid of black people. They are scared of the gypsies. In Hong Kong, I'm not worried about black or any ethnic minority robbing me, I'm scared of poor, street punks.
 
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Tdot_one

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If something "dangerous" is coming at me, why would I take comfort knowing that the theft rate in Detroit is lower than the national average when the murder rate in the same city is 5x the national average???:rolleyes:
Well having lived there, I got a pretty good of when thefts take place. I'm definitely rolling my eyes, because assuming that you're white, I know that the chances of getting targeted is quite low.

Since homicide rates are ridiculously high amongst black Torontonians, I am pretty sure perceptions would be different. I remember being stopped off in Regent Park in the same manner as in Buffalo, Detroit, Newark or Uptown Manhattan. The fact that crime is heavily intra-racial is so damn obvious.

your comments suggests crime correlates with race. Where there's blacks there is crime where there's whites there's little to no crime. This is simply not true and is proven so by your same web site:
You need to re-read my post. Homicide and race DO correlate in those large cities. Let's keep it consistent, remain at the same page, and realize that people are pointing at dangerous cities which clearly have RACIAL issues.

Before I continue, let's look at more generalized statistics:

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm

Homicide rate amongst whites is much lower, either as perpetrators or victims throughout the United States. I don't understand why whites act like they're in danger when in Detroit. The truth is, it's a lot more dangerous being black in the perceived "safer" white areas and studies point this out clearly:

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_04/offenses_reported/hate_crime/index.html

Offenses

In the hate crime program, bias-motivated offenses can be directed at persons, property, or society. During 2004, law enforcement agencies identified 9,035 offenses within the reported 7,649 incidents. Of these offenses, 62.4 percent were directed against persons, 36.9 percent against property, and the remainder (0.7 percent) against society.

Approximately one-half of all bias-motivated offenses against persons involved the crime of intimidation (50.1 percent). Nearly all of the other offenses directed at persons involved assaults: simple assaults made up 31.0 percent and aggravated assaults accounted for 18.4 percent of the offenses.

The majority of hate motivated offenses directed against property (84.4 percent) involved destruction, damage, or vandalism.

An analysis of the total reported offenses showed that intimidation accounted for 31.3 percent of the 9,035 offenses; destruction/damage/vandalism, 31.1 percent; simple assault, 19.4 percent; and aggravated assault, 11.5 percent of the total offenses. (Based on Table 2.33.)

Victims

Of the 9,528 victims of hate crimes in 2004, 9,514 were associated with an incident involving a single bias. More than half of that number (53.8 percent) were victims of racial prejudice. Of those, 67.9 percent were victimized because of anti-black attitudes, and 20.1 percent were targets of anti-white sentiments.

Victims of religious intolerance made up 16.7 percent of the victims of incidents involving a single bias. Of those, 67.8 percent were victims of anti-Jewish bias, and 12.7 percent were targets of anti-Islamic bias.

More troubling information from another report suggesting corrupted figures:

And a just-completed survey of the 50 states and the District of Columbia by the Intelligence Report illustrates how the system, already hobbled by the voluntary nature of reporting, is riddled with errors, failures to pass along information, misunderstanding of what constitutes a hate crime and even outright falsification of data.

While the published hate crime totals have been running recently at some 8,000 cases a year, the real figure is probably closer to 50,000.
[...]
Hate crime statistics published by the FBI since 1992, based on voluntary reports from law enforcement agencies around the country, have shown annual totals of about 6,000 to 10,000, depending on the year. But the new report, "Hate Crimes Reported by Victims and Police," found an average annual total of 191,000 hate crimes. That means the real level of hate crime runs between 19 and 31 times higher than the numbers that have been officially reported for almost 15 years.
[...]
As Jack Levin points out, for example, Northern states generally do a better job of reporting than Southern ones. Because it's believed that black-on-white hate crimes are more prevalent in the North than the South, Levin thinks "hate crimes against whites may be overestimated" as a result.

Reporting in the South:

The gaping holes in the reporting system have been no secret. Alabama, for instance, has not reported a hate crime for years — including 1999, the year when Billy Jack Gaither was savagely beaten to death and his body set afire in a notorious anti-gay murder in the town of Sylacauga.

Quite apart from the obvious bias involved in the Gaither murder, it was hardly plausible that Alabama had zero hate crimes in the same year that California recorded 2,295 such offenses.

Then, in September 2000, a virtually unnoticed academic study funded by the Justice Department found a "major information gap" in hate crime reporting. Based on a survey of 2,657 law enforcement agencies, the study estimated that some 37% of agencies that did not submit reports nevertheless had at least one hate crime. In addition, about 31% of the agencies with reports of zero hate crimes did, in fact, have at least one.

The study's co-authors — the Center for Criminal Justice Policy Research at Northeastern University and the Justice Research and Statistics Association in Washington, D.C. — estimated that almost 6,000 law enforcement agencies likely experienced at least one hate crime that went unreported.

To be honest, if whites were being regularly attacked, I'm pretty sure the military would be sent into ghettos. US is a racist nation and the myth that blacks are a threat to whites has been used to prop up the prison-industrial complex. The truth is, the reason why these cities are so terrible is due to economic drought that's much longer than the current economic "crisis".

salt lake city, Utah only 4% black - murder rate is higher than national average
Hampton, new hamsphire only 0.39% black - rape is 2.34x the national average
Anchorage, Alaska population of 271 000, 234 forcible rape crimes almost 3x national average only 6% of population is black can you tell me these crimes predominately involve the black population??.....I digress.....
How about the fact that Salt Lake City has a large Hispanic population? That shouldn't be too surprising when strolling around there.

In addition, you're not using a standard indicator at all. Rape is a sketchy topic and is hard to determine. Women usually don't report rape. The probability of a woman getting raped is high virtually everywhere.

Let's stop using exceptions. I am familiar with high rates of crime in Appalachian regions, which have black populations. However it makes more sense to use the norm rather than exceptions.

The point is this. The thread title is "the most dangerous neighourhoods", race is irrelevant, you are the first and hopefully the last to reference race. Toronto is nowhere close to other US cities, in fact not even close to other Canadian cities.
How is race irrelevant? Toronto isn't one damn city. Sure it's multi-ethnic, but it's certainly not integrated.

I don't know how Alexandra Park, Jane N' Finch, etc represent integration. I suggest you read this and it gets clear that this is just the beginning. Since Asian and Hispanic migrants tend to be more recent, their crime rates tend to be lower. However that's going to change as this continues to develop and be ignored:

By Michael Valpy
The Globe and Mail (Canada), February 22, 2006
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20060222.INCOME22/TPStory/?query=

Toronto -- Canadian-born visible minorities face the highest barriers to steady, well-paying jobs of any group in the country, a circumstance expected to worsen as huge numbers of non-white young people enter the labour market, says a Canadian Labour Congress study to be released today.
[...]
Ms. Cheung finds that Canadian-born visible minority workers, unlike immigrant visible minority workers, are overrepresented in part-time and temporary jobs even though as a group they have the highest proportion of people in the 25-to-44 age group with a bachelor's degree or higher -- 37.5 per cent, compared with 31.5 per cent who are immigrant visible minorities and 19.1 per cent of native-born whites.

Yes the murder rate amongst black youths in Toronto IS alarming and should not be ignored. Maybe you should create a thread about this subject, I and others too, would gladly participate in this matter.
May do that in a bit. The problem is that unlike in the US, race is a taboo topic in Canada. That tells you how much racism runs in those spheres.
 
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Please, don't bring race into this. This is why I hate talking about issues like this. When someone says "crime" someone else blames a racial group for committing the most crimes. Toronto is made up of many different racial groups and different religions and I'm always surprised when race is brought up. And I will say this again, There is no such thing as a bad neighborhood in Toronto. I will go even further. There is no such thing as a bad neighborhood in the GTA.
 

acetradamus

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The only thing dangerous about Malvern is the constant rumours and "I heard Malvern is really bad" statements made by people who obviously don't live in the area.

Maybe the city can promote Malvern to tourists looking for a scare on Halloween.
 

SunriseChampion

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Re: Theft rate in Detroit: there's nothing left to steal.

Aaaanyway.......I just got back from Vancouver. Literally an hour ago. Anyone here ever stroll around the DTES over there? At night, of course. It's full of tourists during the day. Until a neighbourhood here in Toronto becomes like the DT East Side over there, I think I'll laugh at the notion of "dangerous neighbourhoods". I even had the misfortune of staying a night in a Chinatown slum boarding house over there. Good times, good times.

Parkdale and Toronto's downtown east side are a laugh compared with the shit you have to deal with over in Van City.
 

jenny_zhang

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The truth is, it's a lot more dangerous being black in the perceived "safer" white areas and studies point this out clearly:

If you divide those numbers by population then there are relatively more anti-white crimes assuming that all anti-white crimes are done by blacks and all anti-black crimes are done by whites.
 

lordmandeep

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Lets cause more controversy..

There are a great number of black men getting murdered in the city and Blacks are not the dominate minority group in Toronto or even in the GTA.

You can say social-economic problems are to blame, but there are larger minorities group who face the same problems as blacks, why aren't they getting murdered by the dozens???

The answer is, the Black community should look inwards towards themselves to solve this issue and stop blaming the white man for everything.

Some of you will find what I just said offensive but this is a rather popular view among people of other immigrant communities on this issue.
 
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