MiWay: Service thread

[drum118]

What route will service Bancroft after this change?

I would send #68 up Terry Fox, but not my call.

Then how many riders get pickup/drop off to justify the other riders to waste their time for them? From what I have seen, next to no one use Bancroft service.

 

[Coruscanti Cognoscente]

I would send #68 up Terry Fox, but not my call.

Then how many riders get pickup/drop off to justify the other riders to waste their time for them? From what I have seen, next to no one use Bancroft service.

I have...

Although, looking at Route 68, it actually services Square One. That'd actually be a good replacement for the 38 and might actually get people to use the Bancroft stops because it actually goes somewhere people want to go.

Route 38 serves the hospital. Woopdeedoo. It also serves Erindale GO. Although I have to admit I usually drive to Erindale.

 

[doady]

A lot of people along the Britanna use 38, including myself. Loss of 38 would be huge inconvenience unless 39 is substantially improved and 68 extended.

The loss of 38 means a loss of direct transfer to major east-west routes (e.g. 1/101, 42, etc.), so even with an extended 68, the 39 would have to be extended to Airport Corporate Centre to make up for it (to connect with 5, 51, 35, etc.).

 

[drum118]

Route 38 would still run from point to point as it does today, but would remain 100% on Creditview and not service the Bancroft Dr, Silken Laudanum Way and Britannia loop. This would shorten the runtime and offer better service.

I have said in the past that there should be a 38A and it would follow the 38S route to Wolfdale and then continue east along Central Parkway and Bloor St to Islington. This would service CP 7 days a week and would offer service that would bypass the need to go into Sq One to catch either 9, 26, 34 and shorten a rider trip and time. Riders on 19 would use this route than going into Sq One.

The day of running buses all over the place to find riders is over, as its too costly to do. Unless you can put 40+ riders/hr along any given route to maintain a 50%+ cost recovery, the route is going to be down graded or cut.

 

[andrewpmk]

Route 38 would still run from point to point as it does today, but would remain 100% on Creditview and not service the Bancroft Dr, Silken Laudanum Way and Britannia loop. This would shorten the runtime and offer better service.

I have said in the past that there should be a 38A and it would follow the 38S route to Wolfdale and then continue east along Central Parkway and Bloor St to Islington. This would service CP 7 days a week and would offer service that would bypass the need to go into Sq One to catch either 9, 26, 34 and shorten a rider trip and time. Riders on 19 would use this route than going into Sq One.

The day of running buses all over the place to find riders is over, as its too costly to do. Unless you can put 40+ riders/hr along any given route to maintain a 50%+ cost recovery, the route is going to be down graded or cut.

A possible idea would be to make 27 all day, and cancel 39. Then Britannia would have a direct link to Islington.

If 110 is cancelled I think that 13 should be rerouted to serve UTM. A connection between the GO station and UTM is useful.

 

[Toffy]

Route 38 would still run from point to point as it does today, but would remain 100% on Creditview and not service the Bancroft Dr, Silken Laudanum Way and Britannia loop. This would shorten the runtime and offer better service.

I have said in the past that there should be a 38A and it would follow the 38S route to Wolfdale and then continue east along Central Parkway and Bloor St to Islington. This would service CP 7 days a week and would offer service that would bypass the need to go into Sq One to catch either 9, 26, 34 and shorten a rider trip and time. Riders on 19 would use this route than going into Sq One.

The day of running buses all over the place to find riders is over, as its too costly to do. Unless you can put 40+ riders/hr along any given route to maintain a 50%+ cost recovery, the route is going to be down graded or cut.

I don't see how your 38A suggestion would take riders off of the 19, or more than a few for that matter. I find it incredibly ironic that you would want to route the 38 to the subway via a route with little density and that would duplicate existing route 3 service. Seeing that you're the one who's always complaining about one-seat bus rides and how Mississaugans are scared of transferring and how it costs the city millions of dollars, rather hypocritical of you Drum. If someone riding the 38 needs to get to Toronto, they have the 1/101/201 combo, the 26, the 35 and even the 89/27 (depending on when they're traveling).

With that being said, where did you get all this information from in the first place? Would've been nice of you to cite it in the first place...

One final question, what makes you say the 35 will never see Sunday service? I ask this because I've been told the exact opposite from officials, that the 35 becoming an all day service is a priority, it's just a matter of funding.

A possible idea would be to make 27 all day, and cancel 39. Then Britannia would have a direct link to Islington.

If 110 is cancelled I think that 13 should be rerouted to serve UTM. A connection between the GO station and UTM is useful.

Such a move is exactly what costs transit so much. Personally, I think service south of UTM should be retained, however at a lower service level. Perhaps only every other bus all day and not only just during the midday.

 

[aleesia]

Route 38 would still run from point to point as it does today, but would remain 100% on Creditview and not service the Bancroft Dr, Silken Laudanum Way and Britannia loop. This would shorten the runtime and offer better service.

I think is one of the causes that prevents the 38 from getting higher ridership numbers. Taking the 38 is annoying, especially now that the passengers are given a "tour" of Bancroft.

I have said in the past that there should be a 38A and it would follow the 38S route to Wolfdale and then continue east along Central Parkway and Bloor St to Islington.

That's too long! Hence it will be extremely delay-prone and unsustainable, especially when there is a snowstorm.

A possible idea would be to make 27 all day, and cancel 39. Then Britannia would have a direct link to Islington.

What happens to those who live along Lisgar Drive and Britannia west of Grossbeak?

I think the problem between 27 and 39 with regards on which route stays is really because of the absence of a Britannia underpass. If there existed a Britannia underpass, it can continue east, connecting with 5/5B and 51/51A, then overlap with 57 (except for the Infield diversion) and terminate at Renforth, instead of the current Kennedy/Hershey Centre.

If 110 is cancelled I think that 13 should be rerouted to serve UTM. A connection between the GO station and UTM is useful.

Then this will compromise those who take the 13 between Clarkson and South Common as it is the fastest way among the three (13, 110, 29). I think 29 would be a better choice as it uses the minibuses, plus it already diverts at Park Royal, and it also overlaps with 13. So 29's diversion to UTM (during weekdays only) will definitely not hurt.

#201 is being cancel and will be replace with 101A, as well being blue buses.

Finally, no more confusion over the express routes getting a "MiLocal" designation.

#3 headway will drop to 14 minutes.

What time period is this? Obviously, it won't be the evenings, where the frequency is every 40 minutes.

#14 Sat Service cancel. Route #8 will remain as part of this cut. Headway could remain hourly like it is today and if so, only 1 of the 2 buses will be needed. The best time they could get with 1 bus is 45-50 minute headway for a round trip.

This will free up the opportunity for getting a Sunday service for route 8 as 14 will no longer drag the 8 down. I think it will still require 2 buses though because a unidirectional trip along Route 8 is 34 minutes without the rest time 07 at Square One, arriving at :41 at Port Credit). So I think it will be every 38-40 minutes. Obviously MT will never ever operate a bus every 75 minutes.

OR

Instead of combining with 14, it can combine with 65 instead. After all, the residents along Kennedy don't see any kind of Saturday (let alone Sunday) service, while their Brampton counterparts have 30-minute service or better 7 days a week.

#14, #29 and a few other routes are being looked at becoming cab-bus at nighttime with some for the day.

I like this. If you think about it, it is possible for every route in the system to have this kind of service. So, the entire transit system can be available 24/7.

February or March will see MT holding its ""first public meeting"" on route changes for 2012/2013, as well getting feed back for its 2013 budget.

Finally! A PIC of route changes.

All passes are to be phased out by the summer with the Presto Card, offering free trips after X riders.

All current transfer will be scrap by the summer with the Presto transfers being use. Your travel time will start when you get the transfers.

That's too short of a window. This is targeting the entire system. Hence, they should promote the switch to Presto ASAP, so that "shock" lines at the ticket booth will be minimized. (Remember that 103/502/19 + BT/MT transfer rule fiasco? BT and MT already announced it in the web, bus shelter and terminal ads 1 month before the actual change, and yet a lot of people still didn't know about the change the day it was launched, and the lineup at the ticket booths went all over downstairs to the washrooms.)

A review will take place in 2012 that will look at removing or moving stops to speed up the travel time. (Long over due {hello TTC})

I agree. One of the complaints regarding MT is that the stop spacing is too close, so close that the stop announcements come after passing the stop that is yet to be announced. I gotta admit though that TTC's 50 has really close stop spacing.

MT is going to hire an person and staff to do a full study of transit needs in the city core. It will look at where a new terminal should be built either as a main one or as a 2nd one. It will allow for the BRT and plan LRT use also.

WOW. A new terminal? Then, this is the best opportunity to move the terminal to Rathburn/City Centre so that there will only be one LRT alignment, instead of the planned (and silly) two.

#6 Route may (should) not service Sq One on the weekend and be cut back at Central Parkway. This will require riders to transfer to the 26. (26 headway needs to be reduce). A few others routes may see the same thing.

I actually like that way it is now.

#61 south of Sq One could (Should) become #96 7 days a week in 2012 or 2013.

That's what I thought too, but I thought that 91 is meant to replace 61 south of Square One. It will be even better if 91 were to be a bidirectional Cooksville loop (combining 61/61A south of square One and 62). I know MT loves neighbourhood loops, and this is one opportunity to do it.

I expect to see the 19C cancel by the summer.

No surprise. After Mavis improved to 24-minute Saturday service, plus McLaughlin's 30-minute service, a 19C will be too redundant.

The BRT is still over budget and climbing to the point that all the bridges were looked at of not being built by using a grade crossing. The bridges are staying. Cawthra station will be scale down to a kiss & ride and a bus shelter only.
Provision will allow this station to become a real station if ridership demands calls for it down the road (a car only station with no transit to it. Too far to walk to it). Money that should be used on MT is going to the BRT to help to cover some of the cost over run.

That seems counter-intuitive. At first, it looked good, because bus service will come first before any parking. And then, when I saw the bolded phrase as a long-term plan for Cawthra BRT Stn., I just ate that positive thought.

#35 will never see Sunday service to Islington.

I thought the purpose of the 34's decreasing of frequency to 42 minutes is to prepare for the 35 to fit between the two, running every 42 minutes as well. I noticed that the current weekday evening frequency for 35 is 42 minutes, so I think it is doable. But that will mean the combined Sunday frequency between Kingsbridge and Winston Churchill would be 21 minutes, which the riders of 26 have been dreaming of for a long time.

With that being said, where did you get all this information from in the first place? Would've been nice of you to cite it in the first place...

An internal document? Heard it from council/comittee meetings? We don't know. If this is true, at least we have a say about it.

Such a move is exactly what costs transit so much. Personally, I think service south of UTM should be retained, however at a lower service level. Perhaps only every other bus all day and not only just during the midday.

34-minute midday service is beyond extremely horrible for an express service for a system as big as MiWay. If you're seeing that frequency and still sees a few riders, it's time to cut it. 29 can be rerouted instead (see my reply above for the rationale). Plus it runs every 23-25 minutes, so service will actually be improved.

 

[drum118]

A possible idea would be to make 27 all day, and cancel 39. Then Britannia would have a direct link to Islington.

If 110 is cancelled I think that 13 should be rerouted to serve UTM. A connection between the GO station and UTM is useful.

Waste of money and riders time to server the very few riders going to UTM.

If you want a bus going to UTM from Clarkson, you need a few hundred more riders.

 

[drum118]

My info is first hand. Its is also part of my presentation to the budget committee and feed back from them.

I don't have all the answers, but I look at the system as a network, not individual routes. I am open to ideas that will benefit all riders, not a few.

The routes must function to met the needs of an area as well getting riders across the system as fast as possible and easy with very few transfers. It cannot be a cab for a few riders.

If you look at each route in detail at all hours of the day, you will get a picture how it operates over all.

Since the city is made up of very low density areas, any transit system will have a hard time providing service 7 days a week and late at night. Doing so will be very expensive to do so.

The city has fail to understand that the current building does not meet the TOD standards outside the city core. Therefore these low density areas will never grow ridership. Routes in these areas will see their cost ratio fall to the point the route will be cut.

The City is built haft ass to the point you cannot put in good transit routes and you get the NIMBY's bitching if a bus shows up on their street.

As for #35, it will only go to Renforth at this time after the BRT opens. This also applies to other routes like the 17, 27, 89, 50, 57 etc. If the demands requires it, a route or 2 may go to Kipling on top of the BRT service from Renforth.

As for 39, it has been in the card for it to go to Renforth and may happen after 2014.

As for the #34, service has been cut the last few years, as the ridership west of Confederation is very low since most of the ridership is in the Kingsbridge area.

#13 is the fastest route to South Common Mall and carries way more riders than 110. Those riders will bitch if they have to spend extra time going to UTM and I would be one supporting them.

As for the 38A, yes its a long route but serves an number of functions. It provides service along Central Parkway for the industrial area as well residents. It provides a faster route from the area west of Burnhamthorpe or north of it for riders going south on the 19 that are not close to the 1C or 201. It also will take some pressure off the terminal. You can add route 9 to that mix. Weather and traffic will always be an issues regardless what route it is.

As for the 14 minute headway on #3, its supposed to be all day. As for that 40 minute, that is only after 2300 hour. Still being tweak. I have being pushing 15 minutes for years for 6 days of the week with 18 minutes on Sunday with no extra service being added.

As for 2 buses on #8 for Sat, I will be surprise to see that happen, as this is cost saving and putting resource to better use elsewhere. Ridership is not there to go to lower headway. Any bus running more than 60 minute is a total waste to everyone for local transit and better been kill off.

As for the Presto, I don't know the timeline when things will start, but summer is full service. There is a lot of back end stuff to get ready. What to do with the current seller is still not clear, as you would have to install reader for them to put the fare on the card. You are looking at about $2,000 per seller and that a lot of front end cost as well training the sellers to used them.

The cost of a terminal is in the range of $35 to $50+ million to handle 100,000 daily riders. I said this in my 2004 EA report on the BRT and where it should be located. I still say it should be were the current plaza is for the LCBO/Boston/Hydro. Its close to Hurontario and the BRT. It needs to be built as a major TOD hub.

You got to look at the system with very little new funding coming down the road and council cutting the transit tax base on property taxes.

I have being calling for a transit advisory committee for years and one was to be put together to the point I supplied info how it should be setup. The mayor has kill it now, as all committees are going to have a major overhaul come the 2015 election. I know various councilors wanted to see one now.

There is talk that 19 headway is going to fall to 4 minutes, with a bus being turn at Queensways, since there not enough ridership going south to support 4 minutes. I trying to get a 19A north of the 401, but will not happen until the interchange is fully built.

 

[doady]

The thing with the 38 Creditview's current routing is that it serves Heartland. The route otherwise serves mostly residential and industrial areas. It serves no major nodes other than Heartland. Furthermore, the 38 competes with many routes that do directly serve major nodes, most notably routes 9, 10, 34, 89, which serve Meadowvale, Streetsville, Square One, Erin Mills T.C, Islington... That's main reason for the (relative) low ridership.

Basically, riders of the 38 have to transfer to other routes to go anywhere. And in this repsect, the alignment of the route onto Argentia and hindering transfers to major east-west routes 42 and 57 are far more inconvenient to riders than the Bancroft section. The fact that the 39 does not go past Kennedy does not help either. And of course, the 38 has no connection to the 23 Lakeshore. So the riders of the 38 have few options when it comes to transfers.

The route is also too long and convoluted and 36 minute frequency is simply poor service. They need to shorten the route. One way to do this to make the 38A the main route 38. However, the alignment should be changed to Argentia-Derry-Creditview (instead of Argentia-Creditview) to provide a direct connection to the 42 and 57. Service along Meadowpine/Meadowvale would be provided by rush hour branch 38A, which would bypass Lisgar GO (and thus 38 and 38A would be the same length). The combined peak frequency for route 38/38A would be 17 minutes and the off peak weekday frequency (38 only) would be 33 minutes.

Of course, the 39 Britannia should also be extended to Renforth ASAP. Alternatively, the 27 could be given all-day two-way service. This would benefit the 38 in two ways. First, it would allow the 89 to be cancelled, and thus 89 would no longer steal riders from the 38 (and the 39). Secondly, the 27/39 would give 38 riders more options when it comes to transfers.

 

[Coruscanti Cognoscente]

If when you say Renforth you mean Kipling then I'd agree. If not, then I disagree.

 

[Juan_Lennon416]

Sorry but I wanted to know if you could use a TTC token from Islington Station to board the Mississauga Transit system?

 

[drum118]

Sorry but I wanted to know if you could use a TTC token from Islington Station to board the Mississauga Transit system?

Nope! Cash only or buy tickets down stair at the newsstand and when MT sales {Peak time} office is open.

If you got a Presto card, you can use it.

 

[drum118]

If when you say Renforth you mean Kipling then I'd agree. If not, then I disagree.

If you are referring to my post, ridership will determine what local route will go to Kipling.

MT has no plans running haft empty buses to Kipling anymore and I support them on that plan.

As for 39 going to Renforth, it needs to happen in 2012, but I don't think that's in the work.

When the BRT opens, major revamping of routes will take place as well running shuttle buses to service the airport corp centre.

As for the 89, riders who used it and now use the 109, have gone back to using 89 since it is faster.

The day of transferring is at hand. Only good if there is good connection between routes as well headway.

 

[Juan_Lennon416]

Nope! Cash only or buy tickets down stair at the newsstand and when MT sales {Peak time} office is open.

If you got a Presto card, you can use it.

Thanks drum118!