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Mississauga Pothole Poet --guilty

Mississauga PotHole Poet Letter to the Editor Toronto Star

Prosecution a waste of time and money

Jul 31, 2007 04:30 AM

Perpetrating poetry: Senior found

guilty of uttering threat

July 28

Sometimes our legal system is truly "an ass," as Mr. Bumble in Oliver Twist quite rightly expressed. What is interesting about this case is not only the Crown's position in pursuing the charges, despite the fact that Mississauga Councillor Pat Saito said she probably would not have pursued the charges if the police had not done so – as prior to the incident her dealings with Antonio Batista were "free of animosity."

To add insult, Justice James Keaney said because Batista does not have a high level of education, he would not know what satire is and thus its use would be unlikely. Batista may not know what satire is, but that does not mean his actions or intentions were not or could not have been satirical in nature, which is what really matters here.

I wonder if the police or the Crown would have pursued such charges with the same vigour if the incident had not involved a public figure. The police will not press charges in cases of common assault between strangers unless directed by the victim, yet they will waste ample resources in cases like this.

Roger Sousa, Thunder Bay, Ont


Signed,
The Mississauga Muse
 
Carolyn Parrish on the Mississauga PotHole Poet

From John Stewart of The Mississauga News. His Blog is called RANDOM ACCESS.

Parrish the thought

One of those seriously unimpressed with the conviction of Pothole Poet Antonio Batista is that veteran of multiple death threats, Ward 6 Councillor and Mayor-in-Training-Wheels Carolyn Parrish.

When she was an MP and practising her Texas two-step on that doll who lives in the White House, Parrish was inundated with nasty missives in response to her famous aside about “those American bastards.”

Parrish says she certainly would not have referred the issue to police had someone penned a free verse about her, rather than Pat Saito, which fantasized about her next home being in a comfortable councillor-sized hole in the ground.

The first Mississauga-Erindale MP says the Liberals made her refer a number of the nastier threats she received to the RCMP for investigation. One particularly upsetting email said that the writer had seen photos of Parrish’s two daughters on her web site and mused about what pain he would inflict on them.

“When the police traced it down and went and knocked on the door they found that some kid had been down in the basement sending out emails under his Dad’s name,” says Parrish. “Boy, were his parents ever upset and did he ever get in trouble!”

Parrish agrees with defence lawyer Clayton Ruby that the most appropriate response to the pothole poem would have been a motherly phone call, not a reference to the police.

As for the issue that infuriated Batista — being charged for taxes that rightfully were the responsibility of Green Park Homes because the law only allows the City to bill the first assessed owner of new homes, the councillor said she has solved similar situations already — by threatening the developer into co-operation. Someone has obviously been paying attention to the modus operandi of Her Warship.


Signed,
The Mississauga Muse
 
While I'm at it, it really doesn't make sense for me to post John Stewart's Blog entry on Councillor Carolyn Parrish's opinion on the PotHole Poet Trial and not share Mr. Stewart's.

This Blog entry is dated July 27, 2007 4:36 PM --a few hours after the trial verdict came in.

Also, very important, Mr. Stewart was at the verdict and also the two trial days back in May. He was there. Like. There there.

Poetic justice


“The fact that you don’t know you are writing satire doesn’t mean you aren’t writing satire.”

So stated Professor Dennis Duffy in his expert testimony at the May trial of Pothole Poet Antonio Batista, as he has come to be known.

Too bad for Batista that Mr. Justice James J. Keaney didn’t agree with the expert.

In fact, he said the opposite Friday in his verbal judgment that convicted the 75-year-old Batista of uttering a death threat against Ward 9 Councillor Pat Saito.

First of all, Justice Keaney ruled that Duffy’s testimony in the trial was inadmissible. Then he flatly contradicted his argument about unintentional satire. He said Batista couldn’t argue that his comments were in jest because he didn’t know what satire was. (Batista told court that he only heard the word after the trial procedure began.)

Throughout the trial, defence lawyer Clayton Ruby desperately tried to find a witness (other than Duffy) to speak to satire. He couldn’t find any takers, not Detective-Sergeant John Mans, not resident Neil Lawrence who first spotted the poetic flyer on a mail box and not Saito herself.

So his whole case rested on Duffy’s outline of the history of political satire, which has roots as far back as Greece and Rome, roots that Prof. Duffy expertly outlined. Ruby also relied heavily on his own fine closing argument, which exhorted the judge to protect the core right of political free expression. “Do not be quick to draw criminality into political expression. Your job is to protect that kind of speech,” said Ruby. “We have to be careful to protect a citizen’s right to criticize in public.”

There were a couple of problems with pleading not guilty by reason of satire.
The first one was that his client, who testified on his own behalf, is obviously not given to light humour when it comes to the subject of Councillor Saito.
As Batista demonstrated once again when given a chance to speak to his conviction Friday, he has a one-track mind when it comes to political concerns, with all roads leading back to his belief that Councillor Saito failed to act appropriately when residents were sent tax notices for their new Green Park homes and then were forced to seek rebates from the developer (as the Municipal Act dictates.)

Although Ruby said there was no evidence of personal animosity between Batista and his then-councillor, his client’s demeanour and comments stated the opposite. Outside the court Batista even said that Saito is the one who should be in jail because she isn’t doing her job.

But the main problem Ruby and his client had throughout the trial, and one they never really addressed, were the actual words that were used in the poem.

He wrote, “We are going to dig a pothole about six feet and 3 feet wide and 5 feet deep to hide her body and God will take care of Her Soul, but we cannot forgive her for doing nothing. She can keep running at a good pace but We will make sure that She is in HEAVEN and out of the race. So please GOD take care of this SOUL for ever and EVER.”

Batista said he did not intend that those words be taken so seriously. But they are what they are. It is hard to construe them as anything other than a threat of death. Mr. Lawrence, whom crown attorney Jennifer Goulin argued was a stand-in for the “reasonable person” the Criminal Code speaks to, certainly took them as a threat. He warned Saito’s office immediately.

It’s very easy to ridicule this prosecution as political over-reaction. Clearly, politicians have to accept a higher level of criticism.

It all comes back, however, to the actual words that were used. If that letter were written about my wife or daughter or son, I would have gone to the police too. The words simply “crossed the line,” as Justice Keaney said."


From Mississauga News John Stewart's Blog RANDOM ACCESS.



Signed,
The Mississauga Muse
 
Even if it was a real threat, what does it matter? The man is in his 70's, what can he do? If someone threatens you, you answer with your own threats, not go cry to the police.
 
Wouldn't most sensible people go to the police if they saw what they considered to be hate literature about them posted in public places?
 
Even if it was a real threat, what does it matter? The man is in his 70's, what can he do? If someone threatens you, you answer with your own threats, not go cry to the police.

doady. You forget. This happened in Mississauga. I've been studying The Corporation for over 11 months now and I swear doady, I've looked and looked --I shot so much video. Played the stuff back.

Examined policies and procedures --their minutes. Both the Elected and Les Permanantes. I swear by all that's holy to me.

There's no SOUL there. I can't explain it.

Signed,
The Mississauga Muse
MISSISSAUGA MUSINGS Blog
 
Wouldn't most sensible people go to the police if they saw what they considered to be hate literature about them posted in public places?

Oh absolutely so would I. But remember that Saito knew who'd done it because they had another letter to compare the typing and stuff with. She knew who it was. 75-year old man who she never bothered getting back to who'd written a letter to McCallion complaining about Saito and McCallion never bothered getting back to Mr. Batista either.

What better way to drop the hammer and silence him? Arrest. Restraining Order. And of course, send a message to others? Also, and this never made it into the media either. For much of the time Saito's been a councillor she's been big with the police and also the Mississauga Crime Prevention Association.

Huge police supporter. Then again, so am I.

But I suspect if I ever received such a letter.... Heaven and Earth wouldn't be moved.

All I can say is it better not come on stationary with "Top 100 Employer" on it.


Signed,
The Mississauga Muse
MISSISSAUGA MUSINGS Blog
 
Pot Hole Poet JUDGE'S REASONS FOR JUDGMENT are in

Special thank you to Don Barber who posted this on his webpage, The Democratic Reporter.

To go to Don Barber's website and the Judge's Reasons, please click here.

To go directly to the Judge's Reasons for Judgment as a pdf file, please clck here.

I am copying it here with Mr. Barber's permission.


COURT FILE No.: BRAMPTON, File No.: 06-3201

ONTARIO COURT OF JUSTICE

BETWEEN: COPY


HER MAJESTY THE QUEEN

- AND -

ANTONIO BATISTA

Before Justice J. J. KEANEY
Heard on 28th and 29th MAY 2007
Judgment Delivered on 27th JULY2007
REASONS FOR JUDGMENT

Ms. J. GOULIN .................................................................................................... for the Crown

MR. C. RUBY ............................................................................ for the accused Antonio Batista

KEANEY, J:

[1] Antonio Batista is charged with uttering a threat to cause death, contrary to section 264.l(l)(a) of the Criminal Code and with Intimidation contrary to section 423(1)(a) of the Criminal Code.

Overview

[2] The accused wrote and posted in public in his neighbourhood what it is described as a poem about his Municipal Councillor Pat Saito.

[3] The Crown says the poem contains a death threat, and constitutes intimidation.

[4] The accused maintains that his intention was not to threaten, frighten, or intimidate, but to explain to his neighbours that Ms. Saito was not doing her job.

[5] It is argued on behalf of the accused that the poem is satire, intended to be in jest, so that the requisite mental element of intending that the words intimidate or be taken seriously is not made out.

[6] For completeness of understanding, the poem headed "Parked Cars and Potholes in the City of Mississauga" is attached to these Reasons as Appendix "A".

[7] I have considered all the evidence, and the submissions of both counsel. Any failure in these Reasons to refer to a specific witness, argument, or exhibit, is not a reflection that I have not considered it

Expert Evidence

[8] The Defence seeks to tender the expert opinion evidence of Dennis Dunffy, Professor Emeritus of English at the University of Toronto, in order to assist the Court in understanding the historical context and use of the device of satire as a means of expression. In voir dire testimony to determine the admissibility of this evidence, Professor Duffy described satire as imaginative literature, in the form of poem or prose, in which words are not meant to be given their literal meaning, in which a subject's vices or failings are held up to ridicule.

[9] He makes references in his evidence to noted authors of satire such as A.ristophanes, whom he describes as the greatest dramatist, Alexander Pope, Margaret Attwood, and Mordecai Richter. He testifies that ridiculing political figures is something that satirists are always doing. Satire is prominent in usage today for example in political cartoons.

[10] He testifies that satire can he a form of jest.

Analysis

[11] The admission of expert opinion evidence depends upon application of the Mohan criteria.[1]

[12] The criteria include (a) relevance, (b) necessity in assisting the trier of fact, (c) the absence of any exclusionary rule, (d) a properly qualified expert.

[13] The elements of relevance, absence of an exclusionary rule, and properly qualified expert are all conceded to be present.

[14] The issue for determination is necessity in assisting the trier of fact.

[15] The subject matter of the expert opinion evidence proffered in this case is not a matter of science such that the Court may require scientific information likely to be outside the experience and knowledge of the judge. Rather, the subject matter is an art form, words of expression, by its very nature a subjective exercise.

[16] An excerpt from The Oxford English Dictionary Volume IX (with a date stamp 1967) filed as an exhibit, defines satire, in part, as: "A poem, or in modern use sometimes a prose composition, in which prevailing vices or follies are held up to ridicule.

[17] The Canadian Oxford Dictionary [2] defines satire, in part as: “(1) The use of ridicule, irony, sarcasm, etc. to expose folly or vice or to lampoon an individual. (2) A work or composition in prose or verse using satire.”

[18] Professor Duffy does not testify that all ridicule of a political figure is satire. He has not seen any other works authored by the accused. He acknowledges that he cannot testify as to the accused's state of mind at the time of the writing. He agrees that the poem contains an inferential threat but he does not think that it was meant to he taken seriously.

1 R. V. Mohan, 1994 89 C.C.C. (3d) 402 (S.C.C.)

2 Oxford University Press Canada 2001

[19] The test for whether the utterances constitute a threat as defined in the Criminal Code is whether the words, viewed objectively, would convey a threat of serious bodily harm to a reasonable person.

[20] In opposing the admission of the expert opinion evidence, the Crown argues that if the matter requires an expert to understand that the writing is satire, then the reasonable person test is rendered useless.

[21] Applying the Moham standard, I must determine whether the opinion is necessary in the sense that it provides information likely to be outside the experience and knowledge of a judge.

[22] I find that it is not. The allusion to historical references and the currency of political satire, are by their very nature and definition, matters within the purview of public knowledge. No weighing of the accused's poem with any of the references made by Dr. Duffy to renowned satirists, makes for an apt comparison.

[23] I conclude that the proffered expert evidence does not meet the Mohan criterion of necessity.

[24] With great respect to Dr, Duffy, I rule that his opinion evidence In this matter is not admissible.

Case for the Crown

[25] The accused has had a long-running feud with his municipal councillor Pat Saito. Since 2003 he has voiced complaints about various community issues including the sidewalks, catch basins, water fountains in community parks, development, and latterly, the matter of a tax bill in 2005 addressing tax obligations going back 2001, an issue involving the original developer of the accused's neighbourhood, which was eventually resolved.

[26] Neil Lawrence is a civilian employee of the Toronto Police Services. On February 2, 2006 he saw the accused's poem posted on a mailbox in his neighbourhood. He was shocked at its wording. He removed it from the mailbox, concerned about children in the neighbourhood. He contacted Ms. Saito’s office to warn her.

[27] Peel Regional Police ultimately found four other copies, on community mailboxes and newspaper boxes.

[28] Ms. Saito testifies that she was very concerned, and that she found the posting extremely threatening and very frightening.

[29] She testifies to a long history of dealings with the accused. He first wrote to her in 2003. She spoke with him on the telephone regarding his concerns. Her office followed up six months later and concluded that the accused appeared satisfied.

[30] On November 4,2005, the accused wrote to Ms. Saito regarding complaints of the tax bill. He subsequently telephoned her office. A reply letter she thought had been sent did not go out by reason of a computer error.

[31] Ms. Saito had earlier been quoted in the press making comments regarding potholes as, indirectly, traffic calming devices.

[32] On January 2, 2006, an unsigned letter was circulated to members of Mississauga council, purported to be authored by “The Bed Wolf” headed “What is Good or Bad With Mrs. Pat Saito”. It bears similarities to the posted poem “Parked Cars and Potholes” such that when she saw that latter piece she recognized the similarity.

[33] Peel Regional Police investigated, and on February 3, 2006, the accused provided a videotaped statement.

[34] He admits to police writing the November 4, 2005, letter, which he signed. in regards to the “Bed Wolf” letter, he asks the police if he looks like a bad wolf.

[35] Throughout the interview he denies authoring the poem, but at the same time asserts his conclusion that he did not think that the author was serious.

Defence Evidence

[36] MR. Batista is a 75 year-old native of Portugal. He is a retired labourer. He has three years of education ending at age ten. English is not his first language. He testifies that he wrote the poem about Pat Saito. Once in a while he writes poetry, but cites only one previous example.

[37] He testifies that his intention was to let neighbours know that their elected councillor was not doing her job. He testifies that he is too shy to advise the neighbours directly.

[38] He testifies also that he just did it to make Ms. Saito feel that she should be doing her job instead of being home sick and on vacation.

[39] He makes reference to two telephone calls to her office when she was not available to speak with him, he being advised variously that she was on vacation, or home ill.

[40] He admits lying to the police about authorship of the poem, saying that he was a little shy to admit that.

[41] He testifies he did not think Ms. Saito would be scared, because she has police accompaniment wherever she goes.

[42] The accused has limited English language facility. He does not understand the meaning of the word satire. He first heard the word in his lawyer's office.

[43] Section 264.1(1) makes it an offence for anyone who in any manner, knowingly utters, conveys, or causes any person to receive a threat to cause death or bodily harm to any person.

[44] In determining whether or not the statements constitute a threat, the words are to be viewed objectively in the context or circumstances in which they were spoken, the issue being whether they would convey a threat of serious bodily harm to a reasonable person: see R. and Clemente.[3]

[45] It is not a necessary element of the offence that the author intends to carry out the threat.

[46] Words written in jest, or in such a manner that they could not be taken seriously could not lead a reasonable person to conclude that the words conveyed a threat.

[47] I subject the accused's evidence to the R. v. W.D. test of credibility mandated by the Supreme Court of Canada.

[48] He repeatedly asserts that he was too shy to bring directly to his neighbours his concern that Ms. Saito was not doing her job. But the bulk of his evidence suggests that there is little shy about him.

[49] It is clear from his evidence that there remains a significant and persistent animus on his part towards Ms. Saito. He persisted throughout his testimony, in reiterating his historical grievances against the councillor.

[50] Tellingly, in one point in cross-examination, he speculates "satire" maybe means someone is just trying to scare someone.

3 R. and Clemente [1994] 2 S.C.R. 758 (S.C.C.)

[51] It is argued on behalf of the accused that the satirical expression of political comment is freedom of speech protected by section 2 of the Charter.

[52] That the subject of the threat was public figure, an elected councillor, does not, in my view, necessarily or presumptively engage any section 2 protection.

[53] The words must still be considered in the context as set out in R. and Clemente, and through the eyes of a reasonable person.

[54] The offending passages of the poem are set out in the last three paragraphs:

"We are going to dig a pot hole

about six feet long and 3 feet wide

and five feet deep to hide

her body and God will take care

of Her Soul, but We can not

forgive her for doing nothing


She can keep running

At a good pace but

We will make sure

that She is in HEAVEN

and out of the Race.


So please GOD take care

Of this SOUL for ever and I

EVER."

[55] The offending passages invoke the first person plural. This would suggest to a reader that others in addition to the author have made a plan.

[56] The dimensions of the pothole proposed to be dug bear similarity to that a reasonable person might consider to be the dimensions of a grave. It is proposed that her body be hidden and her soul commended to God. There is expressed a determination that she be sent to Heaven.

[57] The poem was posted in four locations in the neighbourhood, available to be read by anyone.

[58] The poem concludes with a photograph identifying Pat Saito, and the words “do you know her”.

[59] The ultimate words can be seen as an invitation to readers to join the group suggested by the use of the first person plural in the three-paragraph threat

[60] The assertions by the accused that his intention was simply to force Ms. Saito to do a better job does not stand up to any scrutiny, and is not credible.

[6l] The accused does not know the meaning of satire. Satire is the use of ridicule, irony, or sarcasm. Satire can be jest. In order for the accused to be entitled to the defence that the words were written in jest, such that the mental element required is not present, would, of necessity, require that the words be written intending to be satirical, and therefore in jest

[62] For jest to constitute a defence to the mental element requirement of the Threatening offence, it must be intentional. Unintended satire cannot amount to intended jest.

[63] I do not accept the Accused’s arguments that the poem was written intending to be jest. I am not left in any doubt by his testimony.

[64] The Crown must prove that the Accused made a threat; that the threat was to cause death or bodily harm; and that the threat was made knowingly.

[65] In determining whether the Accused has made a threat, what is important is the meaning that a reasonable person, in all of the circumstances, would give to the words used. They are to be considered taking into account the criteria of circumstances in which they were used, the manner of communication, the person to whom they were addressed, and the nature of any prior or existing relationship between the parties.

[66] I find that the words were used in the culmination of a long-standing enmity of the accused toward this councillor flowing from some ultimate frustration his part. The words were communicated publicly, addressed to a specific and identifiable person against whom the accused bore animus. Their pre-existing relationship was one that gave Ms. Saito cause for a concern.

[67] I conclude that the words written constitute a threat.

[68] The same criteria apply to the determination whether the threat was to cause death. On the analysis on the words used, as noted above, I conclude that there was communicated a threat to cause death or bodily harm that was objectively discernable from the point of view of a reasonable person.

[69] To determine whether the threat was made knowingly, it must be determined whether the word were intended to be taken seriously and meant to intimidate or to cause fear. This analysis requires taking into account the words used and their context, together with the mental state of the accused at the time the words were used.

[70] I conclude, on the basis of this analysis that the threat was made knowingly.

[71] I am satisfied that the Crown has proven to its requisite standard of proof beyond a reasonable doubt all the essential elements of the Threatening offence.

[72] The actions of the accused crossed the line from permissible political comment to prohibited criminal conduct

[73] The Accused will be found guilty of the offence of uttering a threat to cause death, pursuant to s. 264.1 (l)(a).

[74] Regarding the charge of Intimidation. This was not strenuously argued by the Crown beyond the assertion that Intimidation is implicit in the Threat

[75] Having found that there was a threat uttered, in any event, on the Intimidation charge, the Kineapple principle would apply. That charge will be stayed.

Release Date: 9 August 2007

{signed by} Justice J. J. Keane
 
You guys are different then, I am not supporter of the police. It is partly the police's fault what happened to this innocent man. The police hate aboriginals, blacks, and homosexuals, that's the truth. I have never gone to the police for anything, and I am proud of that.
 
You guys are different then, I am not supporter of the police. It is partly the police's fault what happened to this innocent man. The police hate aboriginals, blacks, and homosexuals, that's the truth. I have never gone to the police for anything, and I am proud of that.

Doady, here's a Toronto Star article that Don Barber (next to be prosecuted by Mississauga Government) shared with me. I'll highlight what I think is cut-to-the-chase stuff.

1190432697_723daf87fb_o.jpg


Let judges run courts, lawyers say

Resolution urges governments to turn over control of court operation to judiciary to ensure autonomy
Aug 13, 2007 04:30 AM
Tracey Tyler
LEGAL AFFAIRS REPORTER
CALGARY–To some, having prosecutors running the court system is the precarious legal equivalent of leaving a fox in charge of a chicken coop. Yet in many provinces, including Ontario, that's reality, with attorneys general not just prosecuting people for crimes, but operating the court themselves.

But Canada's largest legal organization wants to cut those bureaucratic strings and turn control of court operations over to the judiciary. At its annual meeting here over the weekend, the Canadian Bar Association endorsed a resolution urging provincial and territorial governments to shift from government to judge-based control of court administration, calling it crucial to ensuring the independence of the judiciary.

"What we have is a situation where judges are often not masters of their own houses," said outgoing bar association president Parker MacCarthy, who brought forward the resolution.

There are practical and principled reasons for ending government control of the courts and the public will be the biggest beneficiary, he said in an interview.

While judges often know best what's needed to keep courts running smoothly, they're typically beholden to the whims of bureaucrats when it comes to deciding whether and how court budgets will be spent. This includes everything from hiring staff to rooms for juries.

But even more important is the potential for conflict of interest when the government, which regularly appears in court as a litigant, is also controlling the working conditions of the bench, he said.

Concerns about the government administering court operations were raised as long as 30 years ago, including by former Ontario attorney general Roy McMurtry. A report prepared for the Canadian Judicial Council last year said court administrators are often torn between loyalty to the government and loyalty to the judges they serve.

Complicating the situation further, the report said, is the tension that's developed in recent years between the judiciary and some provincial governments over their failures to follow the recommendations of judicial remuneration commissions and raise judges' salaries.

The report's authors, including Toronto law professors and court administration experts Carl Baar, Robert Hann and Lorne Sossin, recommended a "limited autonomy" model for court operations.

Their system would see governments setting court budgets, judges deciding how to spend the money and an independent commission set up to mediate disputes.

In other developments over the weekend, the bar association also approved a resolution calling on the federal government to scrap the GST on legal services to reduce the high cost of litigation and improve access to the justice system.

The resolution calls for legal services to be "zero rated" for the GST, not GST-exempt like groceries, said Toronto lawyer Allan Gelkopf, who chairs the association's commodity tax, customs and trade section.

While the net effect is the same for consumers – they would pay no GST on legal bills – it's an important difference for lawyers because zero-rating the GST entitles them to claim tax credits on goods and services purchased for running their law offices, he said.

However, members of the bar association who were hoping to ask Justice Minister Rob Nicholson today will no longer have that opportunity. Although Nicholson was scheduled to give a speech and take questions from lawyers – part of a long-standing conference tradition – he's been told by Prime Minister Stephen Harper he must remain in Ottawa, MacCarthy said yesterday during the conference's official opening ceremonies.

Harper is expected to shuffle his cabinet in the coming days. "I guess if your boss is the Prime Minister, you have to listen pretty carefully to those requests," MacCarthy said. Nicholson delivered a brief, pre-recorded speech yesterday by video.

Councillor Pat Saito plays/ed big in the Mississauga Crime Prevention Association, is currently on the Peel Youth Anti-Violence Committee, is part of the Police/Community Liaison Committee...

And when you read Mississauga News Blogger, John Stewart's "Parrish the Thought" where he begins:

"One of those seriously unimpressed with the conviction of Pothole Poet Antonio Batista is that veteran of multiple death threats, Ward 6 Councillor and Mayor-in-Training-Wheels Carolyn Parrish."

and also writes:

"Parrish agrees with defence lawyer Clayton Ruby that the most appropriate response to the pothole poem would have been a motherly phone call, not a reference to the police."

Instead a 75 year old who's never run afoul of anything before has a criminal conviction and had something over $40,000 in legal fees for his May 2007 trial.

Then in August 2007, you read about the incestuous relationship between government and the court bench?

And we wonder why we have so many angry people in our courts and out on the streets?

Doady? In a few months I will be going to the police for something after all my Freedom of Information requests come in and I've done sufficient homework. It'll be the only time I've ever needed to go to police.

If they react the way that I've experienced/observed other layers of government react? It'll be my last time also. I'm sure that you've taken your position based on sound reasons --like personal experience.

I still have to "experience"....
 
You guys are different then, I am not supporter of the police. It is partly the police's fault what happened to this innocent man. The police hate aboriginals, blacks, and homosexuals, that's the truth. I have never gone to the police for anything, and I am proud of that.

Really doady, every police officer, past and present, hates every individual from all the categories you mentioned? You know this for a fact?

The question is: would you go to the police if you witnessed a crime? Or would your pride have you turn your back?
 

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