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Metrolinx: Presto Fare Card

“ Report suggests some Presto issues aren’t being captured because reliability data is calculated by pinging readers every 15 minutes, so temporary issues don’t show up in the data.”

This isn’t even shoddy engineering, it’s outright negligent. This isn’t even an edge case... it’s a fundamentally broken system. How the heck was this shipped in this state?
 
TheTigerMaster said:
“ Report suggests some Presto issues aren’t being captured because reliability data is calculated by pinging readers every 15 minutes, so temporary issues don’t show up in the data.”

This isn’t even shoddy engineering, it’s outright negligent. This isn’t even an edge case... it’s a fundamentally broken system. How the heck was this shipped in this state?
Click to expand...

If someone gave me a system where downtime could only be measured every 60 seconds, my first question would be why aren’t you measuring the downtime every second. Even measuring downtown every 60 seconds could obfuscate a whole range of issues. The fact that they’re only measuring it every 15 minutes is beyond incompetent.

Edit: on second thought, maybe obfuscating these issues is a feature, not a bug
 
The audit Report is very detailed and notes such things as:

o TTC does not get a daily availability calculation spreadsheet for holidays in India/Canada and weekends in Canada (Note: Daily availability spreadsheet is now provided to TTC for holidays in India) (A.1.5)
o For daily spreadsheet not provided during holidays in India, PRESTO staff were not aware of the issue and back-up could not be provided to confirm that these days were included in the weekly rate (data purged after 60 days, when it is required to be kept for 7 years per contract) (A.1.5)

Interesting that PRESTO staff appeared to be unaware of these gaps - which one assumes apply to all PRESTO users.
 
Presto machines regularly failing because no one is emptying coins from them, city auditor finds

TTC has said malfunctioning Presto equipment costs $3.4M annually

From link.

Presto vending devices on the TTC's new streetcars are often out of service because no one is regularly emptying coins from the machines.

That revelation was among several findings by Toronto's auditor general in a new report on Presto equipment and lost revenue on the TTC.

"Due to issues, limitations, and a complicated system, the TTC may not be getting all the passenger revenue it should," according to the report, released Monday morning.

While Auditor General Beverly Romeo-Beehler did not provide an estimate of total lost revenue, she said the TTC's $3.4-million figure related to Presto problems "does not appear to be overstated."

Romeo-Beehler is recommending that the TTC and Metrolinx work together to identify when Presto machines are failing or frozen, and to develop a new system to detect errors.

"I would describe it as a work-in-progress," said Mayor John Tory at a news conference Friday.

He said Toronto and the TTC are already taking steps to improve their working relationship with Metrolinx, the provincial transit agency that oversees the Presto system.
Click to expand...

"[The numbers] are getting better, but they're not where they need to be. They need to be at very, very high level of reliability both so that we don't lose money and so that our customers can depend on the system," Tory added.

The report, and its 35 total recommendations, will be presented to the TTC board and Toronto city council's audit committee later this week.
Click to expand...

Coins not emptied for 7 days

In the case of the malfunctioning vending machines, the auditor general's office monitored the machines on new model streetcars in August.

Of the machines that stopped working during the month, 56 per cent of the cases were simply because the coin box had become full. That happened 188 times during August.

"From our audit work, it appears that neither TTC, Presto, nor its vendors are currently ensuring that the coin box is emptied on a regular basis for all Presto vending machines on new streetcars," the report says.

In one instance, auditors say it took seven days before a machine with a "coin box full" warning was emptied.

Further, a machine with a full coin box is not counted as out-of-service by the company that sold the machines and monitors their status because "it is not technically broken."
Click to expand...

Frozen machines and Indian holidays

The report also points to frozen card readers as an ongoing issue across the system. That error occurs when a reader appears to be in-service when it is not actually working.

To monitor frozen readers, auditors monitored 100 bus drivers, who drove a total of 168 buses over two days in June.

During the period, the drivers reported 330 Presto issues, 300 of which were identified as frozen machines.
Click to expand...

Like a vending machine with a full coin box, a frozen reader may not be recognized as out-of-service by software monitoring the system, meaning that the TTC's reported Presto availability rate of 98.8 per cent may also be inflated.

Statistics on Presto availability are also inconsistently reported because the numbers are not updated on weekends and holidays.

Availability statistics were also previously unavailable during holidays in India, where an offshore team calculates and updates the daily numbers.

That has now been resolved, Romeo-Beehler said, though Presto staff were not aware of the issue when it was happening.
Click to expand...


The PRESTO machines should not just give a warning when it is "full", but when it is 75%, 80%, 85%, 90%, and 95% full. Should never be 100% full. If smartphones can give a warning when it reaches 20% (80% empty) of battery power, so could the PRESTO machines.
 
Last edited:
W. K. Lis said:
Presto machines regularly failing because no one is emptying coins from them, city auditor finds

TTC has said malfunctioning Presto equipment costs $3.4M annually

From link.












The PRESTO machines should not just give a warning when it is "full", but when it is 75%, 80%, 85%, 90%, and 95% full. Should never be 100% full. If smartphones can give a warning when it reaches 20% (80% empty) of battery power, so could the PRESTO machines.
Click to expand...
who is responsible for emptying the coins? Seems like both parties are trying to pass the buck to the other (pun intended)
 
cplchanb said:
who is responsible for emptying the coins? Seems like both parties are trying to pass the buck to the other (pun intended)
Click to expand...
According to the audit, the cash is collected by Garda, presumably under contract to the TTC. This whole mess is clearly caused by so many companies being involved but very few standards were set, ir enforced.
 
DSC said:
According to the audit, the cash is collected by Garda, presumably under contract to the TTC. This whole mess is clearly caused by so many companies being involved but very few standards were set, ir enforced.
Click to expand...

And of course Garda can only collect the money once every few days. It is not practical to empty every streetcar every night.
 
W. K. Lis said:
That's because they're afraid some Joker may make a withdraw.


?
Click to expand...

Not really it's more because with over 200 streetcars it is impractical to do it. You would need a dedicated armoured vehicle and staff to drive to every yard and empty every car every night. It is not exactly a 10 minute job. Maybe 10 minutes per car for a total of 2000 minutes or 33.3 hours to do every vehicle.
 
Richard White said:
Not really it's more because with over 200 streetcars it is impractical to do it. You would need a dedicated armoured vehicle and staff to drive to every yard and empty every car every night. It is not exactly a 10 minute job. Maybe 10 minutes per car for a total of 2000 minutes or 33.3 hours to do every vehicle.
Click to expand...

How did they handle the fareboxes in the "old" days of tickets, tokens, and coins (and a few paper money as well)?
 
W. K. Lis said:
How did they handle the fareboxes in the "old" days of tickets, tokens, and coins (and a few paper money as well)?
Click to expand...

The operators would pick them up in the morning and drop them off in the evenings. If a bus was found to be DOA, an inspector would come and retrieve the box before it is being towed. The clerks would collect them at the divisions or the carhouses and then they would be dispensed with accordingly.
 
Richard White said:
The operators would pick them up in the morning and drop them off in the evenings. If a bus was found to be DOA, an inspector would come and retrieve the box before it is being towed. The clerks would collect them at the divisions or the carhouses and then they would be dispensed with accordingly.
Click to expand...

With PRESTO, then there should be "less" coins, tickets, and tokens to handle compared to the "olden" days.
 
DSC said:
We do, you can order them (in a roll) from the Mint. They are legal tender but I have only ever seen one in change, many years ago. I give them as 'token gifts'.
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I have 1-2 stored away somewhere that I've gotten through circulation over the years. Don't think they've been in regular circulation since the mid 70's.
 
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