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Metrolinx: Presto Fare Card

steveintoronto said:
Let me ask people this (albeit the analogy is not fully linear): How many credit, debit or other financial transaction cards have photo ID on them? Think about it! Again, the Photo Card Act allows *voluntarily* producing a government photo ID that meets legal requirements to buttress ones claim. It makes clear that it must only be voluntary, not mandatory..
Click to expand...

I believe the TTC states that you must show a photo proof of identification. It does not state that it must be issued by the Ministry of Transportation (Drivers license and other similar cards regulated under the Photo Card Act).

The TTC will let you show your Drivers License as proof. But you don't have to show it. You can show any other document as proof (e.g. passport). If you do not want to show any proof if identification you can of course volunteer to pay the regular fare.
 
muller877 said:
I believe the TTC states that you must show a photo proof of identification. It does not state that it must be issued by the Ministry of Transportation (Drivers license and other similar cards regulated under the Photo Card Act).

The TTC will let you show your Drivers License as proof. But you don't have to show it. You can show any other document as proof (e.g. passport). If you do not want to show any proof if identification you can of course volunteer to pay the regular fare.
Click to expand...
Indeed, as I've pointed out many times. The problem is the TTC requiring "Presto Photo ID".

Allow me to quote this yet again:
[...]
Photo ID PRESTO cards (Child – 10-12, Youth, Post-secondary)
  • Photo ID PRESTO cards will be introduced.
  • Details on timing are still being confirmed and we will let you know when they will be available.
[...]
https://www.ttc.ca/Fares_and_passes/PRESTO/PRESTO_fast_facts.jsp
 
nfitz said:
Which you then, irrelevantly, compared to Ontario Photo Cards. For what reason you found it necessary to do that, I have no idea!
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Gee...do you think perhaps because Presto is not only owned by the province, and governed under the Metrolinx Act, it is also under the Photo Card Act as well?

The TTC is a *user* of the card, not an owner, albeit the province effectively mandated they use it. It does not follow in law that it means that they can do as they like with it! The decision is Metrolinx' to make on what Presto displays, and what info it carries, not Davisville's.

As always, there's a wall of silence around Metrolinx on anything to do with the public domain, save what they want you to know, but you can bet your Privacy Panties their legal department has written at least one report on this, and nixed it.

Allow me to aim lower here, to make sure you understand the background to the comment.
I believe the TTC states that you must show a photo proof of identification. It does not state that it must be issued by the Ministry of Transportation (Drivers license and other similar cards regulated under the Photo Card Act).

The TTC will let you show your Drivers License as proof. But you don't have to show it. You can show any other document as proof (e.g. passport). If you do not want to show any proof if identification you can of course volunteer to pay the regular fare.
Click to expand...
I don't know how simple I can make this for you, Fitz, but the TTC is considering otherwise:
[...]
Photo ID PRESTO cards (Child – 10-12, Youth, Post-secondary)

  • Photo ID PRESTO cards will be introduced.
  • Details on timing are still being confirmed and we will let you know when they will be available.
[...]
 
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steveintoronto said:
Gee...do you think perhaps because Presto is not only owned by the province, and governed under the Metrolinx Act, it is also under the Photo Card Act as well?
Click to expand...
How could anyone be so utterly ignorant to think that the Ontario Photo Card would apply to Presto?!?! You are pulling are leg - no one is that ignorant!
 
steveintoronto said:
I suggest you read the Act: (I've already quoted applicable clauses and the definitions in this string)
Photo Card Act, 2008, SO 2008, c. 17 - Bill 85 - Ontario
https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/S08017
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You can't be serious.

The law is about the Ontario Photo Card. The card people who don't have driver's licences can get for identification.

It has absolutely no bearing on what TTC does for photo-identification.

Just look at the definition of "basic photo card", etc. It's a card issued under this act. TTC/Presto photo cards wouldn't be issued under this act!

upload_2017-1-3_17-39-35.png
 

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steveintoronto said:
I suggest you read the Act: (I've already quoted applicable clauses and the definitions in this string)
Photo Card Act, 2008, SO 2008, c. 17 - Bill 85 - Ontario
https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/S08017
Click to expand...

Oh, believe me, we've noticed the entire conversation get sidetracked.

I think the problem here is you're reading too much and understanding too little. A little bit of Google is a dangerous thing.

"A piece of plastic with a photo on it issued by the Queen in Right of Ontario" is not one and the same as “photo card” as defined by section 1 of the Photo Card Act, 2008.
 
Platform 27 said:
Oh, believe me, we've noticed the entire conversation get sidetracked.

I think the problem here is you're reading too much and understanding too little. A little bit of Google is a dangerous thing.

"A piece of plastic with a photo on it issued by the Queen in Right of Ontario" is not one and the same as “photo card” as defined by section 1 of the Photo Card Ace, 2008.
Click to expand...
"An Act to permit the issuance of photo cards to residents of Ontario." As written! Whether the intent was otherwise is open to legal argument.
 
steveintoronto said:
"An Act to permit the issuance of photo cards to residents of Ontario." As written! Whether the intent was otherwise is open to legal argument.
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No. It's not open to legal argument. It's not even open to grown-ass literate human being argument.

There is a thing called a Ontario Photo Card. I can only assume Mr. Fitz used your favourite website to quickly retrieve an image of one. It is a thing. A very specific thing. With the words "Photo Card" written on it.

There is an Act that provides the statutory basis for the creation and use of these things.

Here's the wild part: there are other cards, with photos on them, issued in Ontario, by the Ontario government, that aren't "Ontario Photo Cards."

Like, say, health cards.

Or staff ID cards at any provincial ministry.

Or student cards at any provincial educational institution.

And if someone were to print a photo on a Presto card, take a wild guess what that would be.
 
steveintoronto said:
"An Act to permit the issuance of photo cards to residents of Ontario." As written! Whether the intent was otherwise is open to legal argument.
Click to expand...
But look at the definition of photo card. It's only a card issued under this act. This one ...
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Looks like they cheated the installation as all the buses I took today only had 1 reader at the front.
 
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