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Metrolinx: Finch West LRT

micheal_can

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When it's time to replace the signaling system (e.g. TTC Line 1), there would likely be a major improvement that allows things that can't be achieved today to happen.

Since the 1960s when the first part of the Subway opened, the lines can use all the equipment, not just the ones assigned to it.That doesn't sound like it is the same for the LRT lines. Or am I mistaken?
 

Steve X

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Since the 1960s when the first part of the Subway opened, the lines can use all the equipment, not just the ones assigned to it.That doesn't sound like it is the same for the LRT lines. Or am I mistaken?
TTC didn't have signaling system equipment on the trains back then. It was a simple block system that passed a current under a low voltage through the axle to detect a train. The operator followed the signals and if they fail to do so, a trip arm activates to stop the train. It wasn't till more modern equipment like SCS appeared, trains and signals started to "talk".

Streetcars needed to communicate with the switches to set them. They also have a primitive transit priority antenna. The LRVs will need them. Subways were controlled by transit control centre instead. I suppose Line 5 will operate like a subway? Not sure if the operator would be able to set the switches on the surface part.
 

micheal_can

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TTC didn't have signaling system equipment on the trains back then. It was a simple block system that passed a current under a low voltage through the axle to detect a train. The operator followed the signals and if they fail to do so, a trip arm activates to stop the train. It wasn't till more modern equipment like SCS appeared, trains and signals started to "talk".

Streetcars needed to communicate with the switches to set them. They also have a primitive transit priority antenna. The LRVs will need them. Subways were controlled by transit control centre instead. I suppose Line 5 will operate like a subway? Not sure if the operator would be able to set the switches on the surface part.

Lets say you take the Line 5 cars and put them on this line, or vica versa. Will they work? Will they fit?
 

SaugeenJunction

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Lets say you take the Line 5 cars and put them on this line, or vica versa. Will they work? Will they fit?
All the Metrolinx LRT lines are built to uniform loading gauges so not considering signalling technology, you could run Line 5 trains on Hurontario or Finch, and vice versa and the trains would all “fit”.
 

micheal_can

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All the Metrolinx LRT lines are built to uniform loading gauges so not considering signalling technology, you could run Line 5 trains on Hurontario or Finch, and vice versa and the trains would all “fit”.
So, if it was decided to order new trains for all lines at the same time, regardless of what is chosen, they all would work on all of them?
What is special about the signalling?
 

SaugeenJunction

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So, if it was decided to order new trains for all lines at the same time, regardless of what is chosen, they all would work on all of them?
What is special about the signalling?
Every LRT line in Ontario (and even Calgary’s Green Line, and Edmonton’s Valley Line) could receive a lumped bulk LRV order when it’s time for fleet replacement in 30 years. That’s the benefit of building to “off the shelf“ standards.

Different companies are doing the signalling for each LRT line, so it’s different equipment, software, etc.
 

Steve X

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So, if it was decided to order new trains for all lines at the same time, regardless of what is chosen, they all would work on all of them?
What is special about the signalling?
First Safety. Second Operation.

It's the same reason why there's signs, traffic light and drivers licensing for roads. Unlike cars, trains don't stop in a short distance and operators can't see around the bend in the tunnel. There needs a protection layer to prevent crashes, inexperience errors, slow human response, distracted operation, speed control and drivers going rouge (e.g. hijacking). The old mechanical way is to use mechanics to detect an trains and stop them if they are operating out of bound. ATO further improves these by removing the necessary to maintain mechanics (e.g. trip arms, physical signals and block system) and automate them to a computer on the train and a beacon on the tracks.

In terms of streetcars, the so called signaling system would just be electronic switch operations and transit priority signals. In terms of LRT, they could also have beacons to locate trains and regulate operating speeds to prevent speeding. This would depend on the line.

So yes you can throw any LRVs, even European trams or Calgary C-Trains (provided you can power them) on any ML LRV lines. Can you do it safely when they are running closely is another question. Switching Finch and Hurontaio cars shouldn't be a huge problem in terms of trying to run the car on the line. You should be able to run one in the Crosstown tunnel but will you not rear end the train in front when you can't see?
 

EnviroTO

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There are basically two components, the vehicles and their computer.

The vehicles for both the Finch West LRT and Crosstown LRT are standard gauge low floor LRT vehicles running with overhead. catenary with the same voltage. The vehicles are the same for the most part except for the manufacturer.

The computers installed on the two types of LRT vehicles which speak to the line they are on are different. The Crosstown LRT has trains that speak to the line equipment allowing them to drive fully automated. The line tells the trains where to go and at what speed. The computers are directly connected to the vehicle's control systems. On the Finch West line there is not automated train control... the driver is doing more of the work. There is still some communication between the vehicle and the line to allow the control centre to know where the vehicles are and to set signals and their switches. So these two on vehicle computer systems are not compatible and there is effort to install these systems into vehicles.

That said, each vehicle could be made to function on the other line... but it would take a significant effort, especially for the first vehicle which would require significant testing.
 

W. K. Lis

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All the Metrolinx LRT lines are built to uniform loading gauges so not considering signalling technology, you could run Line 5 trains on Hurontario or Finch, and vice versa and the trains would all “fit”.

From link.

For the 1953 Exhibition season, the Toronto Transportation Commission put together a major display promoting the upcoming launch of the YONGE SUBWAY line, seven months away. Two (then) new subway cars, Gloucester series #5000 and 5001, were put on streetcar trucks and towed from Hillcrest Shops down Bathurst Street overnight in late August before the start of the CNE. From Exhibition Loop, they were towed over temporary tracks to the purpose-built display building. This photo is courtesy the Toronto Public Library.
ttc-cne-subway-smith-strathy-195308-05.jpg


ttc-cne-subway-smith-strathy-195308-03.jpg

Another view of the Exhibition subway platform. After the Exhibition closed, the Gloucester subway cars were moved overnight to Davisville yard via Bathurst, St. Clair and Yonge. Unfortunately, car #5001, leading the way, derailed on the temporary track connection between Yonge Street and the Yard. By the time it was derailed, car #5000 had to be stored at the loop at Lawton and Yonge so daytime streetcar service could operate. It stayed there, under watch, for the day, until it was moved into Davisville yard the next night without incident.
 

INTz

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W. K. Lis

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Curious. With the William Osler Health System - Etobicoke General Hospital being across Highway 27 from Humber College Station, will there be an underground passage from the station to the hospital. Can see problems with patients or visitors or staff trying to cross the busy highway. If the downtown hospitals along hospital row has them, why not Etobicoke General Hospital? Especially with the much higher speed limits on Highway 27. Unless being a block from the hospital makes that the "safety" feature of the station?

download
From link.
 
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