Finch West Line 6 LRT

[ARG1]

During peak travel times on the 36, you’re stopping at every stop anyway. And there are currently more stops along the way than there will be when this line opens.

What makes you think the LRVs would accelerate more slowly? I didn’t notice that with the LFLRVs.

Personal experience with the Bombardier Flexities we have. Its probably more related to the slow speeds that they run at though.

 

[APTA-2048]

Personal experience with the Bombardier Flexities we have. Its probably more related to the slow speeds that they run at though.

I think it depends on the operator and all the restrictions the TTC places on them for fear of legal headaches or whatnot that really kneecaps streetcar service.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Personal experience with the Bombardier Flexities we have. Its probably more related to the slow speeds that they run at though.

The operation of the streetcars can be improve if they actually spend the needed money on improvements. Such as double-point switches insted of single-point switches (which the suburban light rail lines will have). The requirement that the single-occupant automobiles making left turns get priority at traffic lights before the transit vehicles. And so on.

 

[ViveleCanada]

Well it should also be considered that unlike a bus, this will be stopping at all of its stations, will likely have slower acceleration than a bus, and the 700m stop spacing isn't consistent. That number is inflated by certain stretches of the line being barren of any stops (such as between Kipling and Islington).

Also, don't forget, this will be operated by the TTC. Expect it to travel at 30km/h between stations for no reason.

What reason would the LRV's have to stop at every station? Even on the Crosstown, there are stop request buttons on the Flexity's for the surface section (Flexity's stop at all underground stations). The general streetscape of Finch West is just as barren as Eglinton East so I wouldn't imagine the LRV's would need to stop at every single stop, at least during off-peak. In regards to operating speeds, I'm a bit more optimistic since this is an entirely new line on a suburban artery. Finch West doesn't need to deal underfunded infrastructure and diamond track junctions as with the legacy system so it could give drivers the freedom to gun the throttle more often. I think the more significant hindrance to speed would be TSP coupled with, as you mentioned, the slower acceleration of LRV's. Since the Crosstown can't get proper TSP, I suspect the TSP on Finch would be even more water-downed given it's more in the heartland of suburbia.

 

[SaugeenJunction]

What reason would the LRV's have to stop at every station? Even on the Crosstown, there are stop request buttons on the Flexity's for the surface section (Flexity's stop at all underground stations). The general streetscape of Finch West is just as barren as Eglinton East so I wouldn't imagine the LRV's would need to stop at every single stop, at least during off-peak. In regards to operating speeds, I'm a bit more optimistic since this is an entirely new line on a suburban artery. Finch West doesn't need to deal underfunded infrastructure and diamond track junctions as with the legacy system so it could give drivers the freedom to gun the throttle more often. I think the more significant hindrance to speed would be TSP coupled with, as you mentioned, the slower acceleration of LRV's. Since the Crosstown can't get proper TSP, I suspect the TSP on Finch would be even more water-downed given it's more in the heartland of suburbia.

Both Finch and Eglinton will stop at every stop because of scheduling and TSP, as you allude to above. They want to maintain consistent spacing between vehicles, and the traffic signals will be timed based on assumed vehicle arrival time at each intersection. While skipping stops would speed it up, it would throw a lot of other stuff out of whack.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I really lament not completing this project all the way to Yonge in the first phase. Especially given how quickly this project is being completed.

 

[DKsan]

What reason would the LRV's have to stop at every station?

It will stop at every stop because, if you've ever travelled along the 36 Finch West, there are people at every stop. The FWLRT is being built because the TTC has run out of efficient vehicle capacity on Finch West, not to provide a faster journey time. It serves a lot of lower income people who work at the low density industrial lands, Etobicoke General, people heading to Albion Mall, and students going to Humber College/UoG at Humber.

 

[smallspy]

Both Finch and Eglinton will stop at every stop because of scheduling and TSP, as you allude to above.

I can't speak to Finch, but that is absolutely not the case on the surface section of Eglinton.

Dan

 

[W. K. Lis]

What reason would the LRV's have to stop at every station? Even on the Crosstown, there are stop request buttons on the Flexity's for the surface section (Flexity's stop at all underground stations). The general streetscape of Finch West is just as barren as Eglinton East so I wouldn't imagine the LRV's would need to stop at every single stop, at least during off-peak. In regards to operating speeds, I'm a bit more optimistic since this is an entirely new line on a suburban artery. Finch West doesn't need to deal underfunded infrastructure and diamond track junctions as with the legacy system so it could give drivers the freedom to gun the throttle more often. I think the more significant hindrance to speed would be TSP coupled with, as you mentioned, the slower acceleration of LRV's. Since the Crosstown can't get proper TSP, I suspect the TSP on Finch would be even more water-downed given it's more in the heartland of suburbia.

I can see the light rail vehicles passing empty stops after midnight (1 AM? 4 AM), when it would be less crowded. That leads to the question about Blue Night Network service.

 

[TRONto]

I can see the light rail vehicles passing empty stops after midnight (1 AM? 4 AM), when it would be less crowded. That leads to the question about Blue Night Network service.

Has anything been said about running the LRT 24 hours like the streetcar network in downtown?

 

[W. K. Lis]

Has anything been said about running the LRT 24 hours like the streetcar network in downtown?

They'll likely continue running the 336 FINCH WEST NIGHT BUS, after hours replacing Line 6 and bus 36.

See link.

Really should be extended to Pearson Airport (Transit Hub).

 

[ARG1]

What reason would the LRV's have to stop at every station? Even on the Crosstown, there are stop request buttons on the Flexity's for the surface section (Flexity's stop at all underground stations). The general streetscape of Finch West is just as barren as Eglinton East so I wouldn't imagine the LRV's would need to stop at every single stop, at least during off-peak. In regards to operating speeds, I'm a bit more optimistic since this is an entirely new line on a suburban artery. Finch West doesn't need to deal underfunded infrastructure and diamond track junctions as with the legacy system so it could give drivers the freedom to gun the throttle more often. I think the more significant hindrance to speed would be TSP coupled with, as you mentioned, the slower acceleration of LRV's. Since the Crosstown can't get proper TSP, I suspect the TSP on Finch would be even more water-downed given it's more in the heartland of suburbia.

They are outfitted with them yes, however as far as I know to help avoid bunching it will be disabled. Something similar was done on iON where they had the stop requested buttons but they were disabled and were only there just in case they ever changed their mind. Even then I believe they recently removed them because people were pressing them anyway and it was annoying the drivers.

 

[Rainforest]

Well it should also be considered that unlike a bus, this will be stopping at all of its stations, will likely have slower acceleration than a bus, and the 700m stop spacing isn't consistent. That number is inflated by certain stretches of the line being barren of any stops (such as between Kipling and Islington).

Also, don't forget, this will be operated by the TTC. Expect it to travel at 30km/h between stations for no reason.

The fact that the stop spacing is uneven, should not increase the total travel time compared to the same number of stops spaced evenly.

 

[superelevation]

The link is correct and says 38 min, but I believe that's mis-estimated. The average speed would be (11 * 60) / 38 = 17 kph. That's slower than a bus, and doesn't seem realistic for a line with relatively wide stop spacing, > 600 m on average.

Maybe they originally estimated the whole Finch line, Humber to Yonge (17 km), and then updated the length but not the travel time. (17 * 60) / 38 = 27 kph, that looks a bit high but closer to reasonable.

Or it's actually just that the light rail line is slow (as many have long suggested) and faces issues buses don't - it will simply not be competitive with an express bus.

It will stop at every stop because, if you've ever travelled along the 36 Finch West, there are people at every stop. The FWLRT is being built because the TTC has run out of efficient vehicle capacity on Finch West, not to provide a faster journey time. It serves a lot of lower income people who work at the low density industrial lands, Etobicoke General, people heading to Albion Mall, and students going to Humber College/UoG at Humber.

There was capacity, where is the Express?

I can't speak to Finch, but that is absolutely not the case on the surface section of Eglinton.

Dan

It is 100% the case - it's been stated by Metrolinx / Crosslinx countless times

 

[APTA-2048]

Or it's actually just that the light rail line is slow (as many have long suggested) and faces issues buses don't - it will simply not be competitive with an express bus.



There was capacity, where is the Express?



It is 100% the case - it's been stated by Metrolinx / Crosslinx countless times

38 minutes is still faster than the hour or so it currently takes to travel on the 36.

Also when I took the 36 regularly, we’d hit a lot of traffic. An express bus would be in the same traffic. I’m not sure how much faster it would actually be.