News   Aug 12, 2022
 1K     0 
News   Aug 12, 2022
 782     1 
News   Aug 12, 2022
 569     0 

Metrolinx: Finch West LRT

Amare

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Feb 4, 2015
Messages
4,556
Reaction score
6,724
Location
Toronto
Speaking of wires, are they planning on burying the hydro wires along the street? They did that with the Yonge and Bloor-Danforth subway projects, as well as the Spadina and St. Clair streetcar projects. It improves the public realm significantly and encourages investment.
It does?
 

Amare

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Feb 4, 2015
Messages
4,556
Reaction score
6,724
Location
Toronto
I would guess in the same way that street trees, public art, clean sidewalks and a road not full of holes encourages investment - it makes it look like you care for a place, rather than not giving AF.
Normally I would go on and agree, but then I look at roads like Adelaide St, Queen St, or King St downtown and tend to think developers and others really couldnt care less at to the state of how a public realm looks. There's no doubt that having an LRT encourages investment, but i'm not sure i would stretch that theory out to hydro wires.
 

junctionist

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
May 1, 2007
Messages
9,106
Reaction score
3,045
Location
The Junction, Toronto

I think so. It makes the public realm look cleaner, better maintained, less utilitarian, and more attractive overall. That, in turn, attracts business investment. Quality main street businesses tend to look after the public realm and tend to encourage a stronger sense of community. In turn, the area becomes more attractive to mixed-use intensification (developer investment), as people enjoy vibrant main streets and want to live close to them.
 

Amare

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Feb 4, 2015
Messages
4,556
Reaction score
6,724
Location
Toronto
I think so. It makes the public realm look cleaner, better maintained, less utilitarian, and more attractive overall. That, in turn, attracts business investment. Quality main street businesses tend to look after the public realm and tend to encourage a stronger sense of community. In turn, the area becomes more attractive to mixed-use intensification (developer investment), as people enjoy vibrant main streets and want to live close to them.
We're veering off topic here, but I disagree. Sure having utility lines buried makes the public realm looks cleaner and more attractive, but it has very little on businesses being attracted to an area or not. For instance, College St between Ossington and Spadina has above ground hydro poles and it's public realm is generally pretty good despite the fact. Businesses still invest in the area and the BIA is very successful.

The only issue I have is that Toronto's current public realm design for streetscapes is sterile, and all over the place. We had a great template to start off with and improve on with Spadina but instead of following up with that, we've experimented with so many mindnuming designs which have been inferior in one way or another (ie: Finch will have one set of streetscape design, Eglinton another, Queens Quay West yet another, Queens Quay East another, and so on).
 

junctionist

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
May 1, 2007
Messages
9,106
Reaction score
3,045
Location
The Junction, Toronto
We're veering off topic here, but I disagree. Sure having utility lines buried makes the public realm looks cleaner and more attractive, but it has very little on businesses being attracted to an area or not. For instance, College St between Ossington and Spadina has above ground hydro poles and it's public realm is generally pretty good despite the fact. Businesses still invest in the area and the BIA is very successful.

The only issue I have is that Toronto's current public realm design for streetscapes is sterile, and all over the place. We had a great template to start off with and improve on with Spadina but instead of following up with that, we've experimented with so many mindnuming designs which have been inferior in one way or another (ie: Finch will have one set of streetscape design, Eglinton another, Queens Quay West yet another, Queens Quay East another, and so on).

Burying utility wires is just one 'tool' to get the job done of keeping commercial areas vibrant and revitalizing those that aren't. It's not a prerequisite or the key ingredient, but it helps. The Junction saw significant revitalization after the hydro wires were buried on Dundas Street West.

St. Clair West saw a revitalization with its streetscape overhaul, which included burying the overhead hydro wires along most of the route. Almost all parts of Bloor, the Danforth, and Yonge Street have buried overhead wires and vibrant retail areas, as well.
 

yoshirocks702

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Sep 17, 2016
Messages
161
Reaction score
278
I didn't think they were burying the whole corridor, but I could be wrong. On another wire note, no pics but the Poles for the LRT overhead wires are in place on decent chunk from Yorkgate to about tobermory on my drive last night
 

W. K. Lis

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Dec 24, 2007
Messages
21,998
Reaction score
12,129
Location
Toronto, ON, CAN, Terra, Sol, Milky Way
Burying utility wires is just one 'tool' to get the job done of keeping commercial areas vibrant and revitalizing those that aren't. It's not a prerequisite or the key ingredient, but it helps. The Junction saw significant revitalization after the hydro wires were buried on Dundas Street West.

St. Clair West saw a revitalization with its streetscape overhaul, which included burying the overhead hydro wires along most of the route. Almost all parts of Bloor, the Danforth, and Yonge Street have buried overhead wires and vibrant retail areas, as well.
They did not bury the overhead lines along Roncesvalles Avenue, because Mayor Rob Ford wanted to save money, or as he called it, "gravy". (The family's usual excuse.)
 

Amare

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Feb 4, 2015
Messages
4,556
Reaction score
6,724
Location
Toronto
It makes sense to bury what can be buried from a weather proofing standpoint. A good windstorm or ice storm won't take down infrastructure that isn't there.
It comes with it's tradeoffs. Sure if you bury infrastructure you'll have less issues with wind/ice storms. But keep in mind that if you suffer from large amounts of damage due to let's say a flood, the damage will be far more extensive/expensive and the repairs/downtime will be much greater with underground electric corridors.

If one is has their power cut off for days due to a tree falling on power lines/overhead streetcar lines, that outage would easily extend for weeks at a minimum with underground electric infrastructure.
 

junctionist

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
May 1, 2007
Messages
9,106
Reaction score
3,045
Location
The Junction, Toronto
It comes with it's tradeoffs. Sure if you bury infrastructure you'll have less issues with wind/ice storms. But keep in mind that if you suffer from large amounts of damage due to let's say a flood, the damage will be far more extensive/expensive and the repairs/downtime will be much greater with underground electric corridors.

If one is has their power cut off for days due to a tree falling on power lines/overhead streetcar lines, that outage would easily extend for weeks at a minimum with underground electric infrastructure.

Do you have a source? Underground power lines are specially designed to resist damage in flooding events. This link provides some interesting information in this regard.
 

Amare

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Feb 4, 2015
Messages
4,556
Reaction score
6,724
Location
Toronto
Do you have a source? Underground power lines are specially designed to resist damage in flooding events. This link provides some interesting information in this regard.
Remember Hurricane Sandy which slammed New York? That wasnt even a hurricane when it hit New York City but it still crippled it's infrastructure, a lot of which is underground.

But in any case, we're beating on a dead horse issue; here's a read for those who want to read on the various benefits/detriments of overhead vs. underground power lines:



 

Steve X

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Jan 16, 2016
Messages
2,371
Reaction score
1,922
Remember Hurricane Sandy which slammed New York? That wasnt even a hurricane when it hit New York City but it still crippled it's infrastructure, a lot of which is underground.

But in any case, we're beating on a dead horse issue; here's a read for those who want to read on the various benefits/detriments of overhead vs. underground power lines:



Most of the damage done by a hurricane is not the wind. Depending on what side of the storm hits the city, they might even avoid the deadly wind side of the storm. Storm surge and the rain is the major problem. The remnants of Ida mixed with another system caused a huge rainstorm that drowned people in basements a month ago. There was no wind there. If flooding consists and these electrical vaults are under water, how can it be even possible to repair them?

Also a larger size weaker hurricane would do more damage than a stronger but tiny hurricane. The wind field stretching more than 200km wide of tropical storm wind would do a lot more damage than a concentrated 40km wide wind field. That is not usually reported by the media as the only focus on category level. Next is the speed the storm moves. If the storm stalls, it'll just dump tons of rain while blowing high winds for more than a day while a speedy storm zooms pass the city in hours. So you can't really just say getting hit by a category 1 hurricane vs getting hit by a tropical storm makes a big difference.
 

crs1026

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Oct 16, 2014
Messages
8,039
Reaction score
13,575
Do you have a source? Underground power lines are specially designed to resist damage in flooding events. This link provides some interesting information in this regard.

Underground cables may imply underground substations, and they are a different story. There have been a couple of these in recent years in central Etobicoke.… with extra long outages.

- Paul
 

Top