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Looking for a pre-con condo, loft or townhome...suggestions?

capturetheflag

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Hey all,

Been reading and enjoying this site/forum for the past month and I'm looking for some help. My girlfriend and I are searching for a pre-construction condo, loft or townhouse - with occupancy anywhere between late 2012 or 2013. We're not too picky in terms of location, we both currently work and live in downtown Toronto.

From what I've seen, pre-con prices are either extremely high for units we like OR buildings/floorplans are not what we are looking for (too small or no outdoor space). If money were no object we would put down for Trinity Bellwoods Towns or a million dollar penthouse at Bellefair Kew Beach. We're looking for at least 1100 or 1200 sf.

One unit we saw at Motif Lofts was about $515/sqft for 1149sf but it seems kinda pricey for the area and condo fees are quite high (small building with ZERO amenities).

Any suggestions? We will be the end users and don't want to spend more than $600k max. Should we just wait 12 to 18 months and see where the market will be at that point?

thanks for any help!

capturetheflag
 

joyce

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i seriously think you should consider north york near a subway line so that you both can get to work without drive... how about concord park place on sheppard and leslie area? The prices aren't as steep as downtown and you are located in a terrific area. Currently there is a project there called Tango and its slated to be finished in 2013, i assume another phase will come online shortly as well.. let me know what you guys think?
 

NikoS

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Why pre construction... most precons get delayed and probably 2 years is cutting it short... I guess you can look into an assignment. But then you will have missed out on the "lower" ppsf and have to cover the closing costs...
 

Willy Wong

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Capturetheflag,

With the "boom" in condo's there are so much to choose from...at times I think its even overwhelming and maybe confusing to first time buyers.

I would suggest you work with a realtor through Buyers Representation Agreement (B.R.A) and define your requirements to him and let him do all the research work (running around) for you and let him present you with the options based on your requirements, so you can make decision. Remember, most buiders will pay the realtor for bringing in a client to them. Its a win-win for buyer!
 

NikoS

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You can usually negotiate a better deal for yourself (free locker, upgrades, cash back) without an agent once you figure out what you are looking for. Precons have inherent risk because developers can still switch things up... I don't know if you know much about assignments, but basically you take over someones PSA. If you are looking for Trinity Bellwoods area, consider going south to king.. or further west.. I bought a 2bed 2bath at Artcondos which has started demolition. I don't think the prices have gone up yet. Don't buy from urbancorp... lots of bad news stories.

f you want the east side, there are a couple building under construction in the queen/carlaw ares. I bought at the ninety at queen and broadview which is also under construction - and should be down next year sometime.

I can't suggest whether you should wait or not. Real estate is an investment, but a home too. If you buy a place with the specific reason as to turn a profit than its just like any other investment - risky... if you intend on living in it and are buying a place thats within your means than you should buy the place you need when you need it.
 

shyne07

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You can usually negotiate a better deal for yourself (free locker, upgrades, cash back) without an agent once you figure out what you are looking for. Precons have inherent risk because developers can still switch things up... I don't know if you know much about assignments, but basically you take over someones PSA. If you are looking for Trinity Bellwoods area, consider going south to king.. or further west.. I bought a 2bed 2bath at Artcondos which has started demolition. I don't think the prices have gone up yet. Don't buy from urbancorp... lots of bad news stories.

f you want the east side, there are a couple building under construction in the queen/carlaw ares. I bought at the ninety at queen and broadview which is also under construction - and should be down next year sometime.

I can't suggest whether you should wait or not. Real estate is an investment, but a home too. If you buy a place with the specific reason as to turn a profit than its just like any other investment - risky... if you intend on living in it and are buying a place thats within your means than you should buy the place you need when you need it.

how can you get into VIP sales without a Realtor?
I want to purchase Yorkvill Condominium by myself and get some incentives
 

JayBee

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You can usually negotiate a better deal for yourself (free locker, upgrades, cash back) without an agent once you figure out what you are looking for. Precons have inherent risk because developers can still switch things up... I don't know if you know much about assignments, but basically you take over someones PSA. If you are looking for Trinity Bellwoods area, consider going south to king.. or further west.. I bought a 2bed 2bath at Artcondos which has started demolition. I don't think the prices have gone up yet. Don't buy from urbancorp... lots of bad news stories.

f you want the east side, there are a couple building under construction in the queen/carlaw ares. I bought at the ninety at queen and broadview which is also under construction - and should be down next year sometime.

I can't suggest whether you should wait or not. Real estate is an investment, but a home too. If you buy a place with the specific reason as to turn a profit than its just like any other investment - risky... if you intend on living in it and are buying a place thats within your means than you should buy the place you need when you need it.

What kind of incentives did you get at The Ninety?
 

NikoS

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I should qualify my previous statement. If you are going to use an agent use one that is well connected. I found it frustrating waiting for an agent to get me into VIPs only to find out that by the time they get me in everything good is already sold... It seems to me like there is some sort of friends and family thing first then the public. The best incentive is really the lowest price...

I would start by trying to contact the exclusive listing agents - baker real estate and see what they say to you... You must have a card from one of their sales reps, they seem to do lots of the pre-con sales in TO.
 

capturetheflag

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You can usually negotiate a better deal for yourself (free locker, upgrades, cash back) without an agent once you figure out what you are looking for. Precons have inherent risk because developers can still switch things up... I don't know if you know much about assignments, but basically you take over someones PSA. If you are looking for Trinity Bellwoods area, consider going south to king.. or further west.. I bought a 2bed 2bath at Artcondos which has started demolition. I don't think the prices have gone up yet. Don't buy from urbancorp... lots of bad news stories.

f you want the east side, there are a couple building under construction in the queen/carlaw ares. I bought at the ninety at queen and broadview which is also under construction - and should be down next year sometime.

I can't suggest whether you should wait or not. Real estate is an investment, but a home too. If you buy a place with the specific reason as to turn a profit than its just like any other investment - risky... if you intend on living in it and are buying a place thats within your means than you should buy the place you need when you need it.

NikosS,

You don't need to tell me about Urbancorp. We currently live in one of the townhomes in the king/dufferin area and we are used to dealing with them. We like where we area now but think a couple years is a good time for a change.

The reason we are looking at a pre-construction is b/c we want to sell our current home in 2012 taking the profit and equity we will have by then and putting it towards the mortgage once we take occcupancy on a new place. Ideally having only a slightly higher mortgage than we owe now. So in a rush we are not, making buying pre-con appealing. In reality we could just pay off what we have now, but with so many new developments around here we don't know what the area will become in a year or two. I wouldn't be against buying an assignment, but as I mentioned since we are not in a rush, I would actually perfer something that is 18 to 24 months away from completion.

We have talked about getting an agent to gain access to VIP pricing to any new developments. I was of the same mind as you mentioned negotiating on a pre-con on my own and just getting my lawyer to look over the agreement during the cooling period. It seems most agents who work in sales centres wouldn't negotiate pricing on the unit per sf, but seemed open to wiggle room on things that you mentioned (locker, upgrades, parking, deposit structure). I'm just stuck on the pricing per sf in pretty much any pre-con in the downtown area - east or west of the core. I had stopped paying attention to pricing for well over a year and its really gotten wacky. $500/sf min, with anywhere up to $750/sf not unusual in the nicer buildings with choice locations. This issue is probably a dead horse by now on this forum so I'll stop beating it.
 

shyne07

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I should qualify my previous statement. If you are going to use an agent use one that is well connected. I found it frustrating waiting for an agent to get me into VIPs only to find out that by the time they get me in everything good is already sold... It seems to me like there is some sort of friends and family thing first then the public. The best incentive is really the lowest price...

I would start by trying to contact the exclusive listing agents - baker real estate and see what they say to you... You must have a card from one of their sales reps, they seem to do lots of the pre-con sales in TO.

So for VIP pricing, I NEED an agent right? and a right one. How do I know if my agent is well connected? I don't want to wait for VIP with this guy and later find out that he couldnt get me what I want...
 

symmetrydev

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Hi capturetheflag.

Might I suggest our new loft project, The Hive on the Queensway. The largest unit we have is a 1088 sq.ft penthouse unit with a 180 sq.ft terrace.
Price/sq.ft is is definitely friendlier than Motif (especially given that it's a penthouse unit and there are only 2 of those in the building) and finishes are in line with those at Motif
(and most $600/sq.ft condos in the core).
The unit features 10' exposed concrete ceilings and is a 2 bedroom + den.
The location is Islington and The Queensway, which is 8-10 minutes to the core via The Gardiner or straight east on the Queensway.
We're launching next month but if you register and leave a note indicating you're responding to this post, I can get you pricing/floorplans in advance.
It's a 6 storey, 20 unit building in a great neighborhood with a lot of potential and upside.

thehivelofts.com

Urban Toronto listed the project as their feature project: http://urbantoronto.ca/content.php?1617-Symmetry-Developments-Brings-The-Hive-Lofts-to-The-Queensway

Best of luck to you and your girlfriend in your search!

Cheers
 
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capturetheflag

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Hi capturetheflag.

Might I suggest our new loft project, The Hive on the Queensway. The largest unit we have is a 1088 sq.ft penthouse unit with a 180 sq.ft terrace.
Price/sq.ft is is definitely friendlier than Motif (especially given that it's a penthouse unit and there are only 2 of those in the building) and finishes are in line with those at Motif
(and most $600/sq.ft condos in the core).
The unit features 10' exposed concrete ceilings and is a 2 bedroom + den.
The location is Islington and The Queensway, which is 8-10 minutes to the core via The Gardiner or straight east on the Queensway.
We're launching next month but if you register and leave a note indicating you're responding to this post, I can get you pricing/floorplans in advance.
It's a 6 storey, 20 unit building in a great neighborhood with a lot of potential and upside.

thehivelofts.com

Urban Toronto listed the project as their feature project: http://urbantoronto.ca/content.php?1617-Symmetry-Developments-Brings-The-Hive-Lofts-to-The-Queensway

Best of luck to you and your girlfriend in your search!

Cheers

Hey symmetrydev.

Thanks for your reply. I actually registered once I heard about your development last week. It looks its a great project, though I don't know if it is for us as we would have to start driving into the core for work. I really like the area and we do find ourselves going into that part of the city to shop or grab a bite. I'd have to think about it once I find out the pricing, etc. It's actually not too far west from where we live now.
 

Thesb

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My wife and I live in The Printing Factory and recently bought a unit here (right across the street): http://www.leslievillelofthouses.com/flash.php

Occupancy is slated for March 2012, but I'd say winter 2012 is probably a safer bet, considering construction won't begin until September. The only units left are #s 07 and 08. The caveat is that the parking for those two remaining units is located in the adjacent building (53 Colgate). You get a discount on the purchase price for that "inconvenience" though - $10,000 less that what the other units sold for.
 

symmetrydev

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Hey symmetrydev.

Thanks for your reply. I actually registered once I heard about your development last week. It looks its a great project, though I don't know if it is for us as we would have to start driving into the core for work. I really like the area and we do find ourselves going into that part of the city to shop or grab a bite. I'd have to think about it once I find out the pricing, etc. It's actually not too far west from where we live now.

Capturetheflag

I received your registration and will be sending you the preliminary pricing for units of the size you're seeking.
I tried thinking of pre-con projects in the core less than $500 psf and couldn't come up with any. Motif is actually
fairly well priced in my opinion for the location and finishes on offer.

I love the location for Leslieville townhomes suggested by Thesb but am not too excited by the layout and finishes.
The units are above 1000 sq.ft but it's divided over a number of floors and the sense of space will be amiss.

Unfortunately, the new reality for pre-con in the core is $550-$650 psf. This is driven by the cost of land (whatever little there is available).
Which is why we're exploring neighborhoods such as The Queensway as a means to achieve a fairly affordable price point and still offer the same finishes (if not better) than pre-con in the core.

Cheers!
 

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