salsa
Senior Member
I feel the same way about Vancouver Washington vs Vancouver Canada. I also think it's weird that there are two Kansas Cities (in Missouri and Kansas), both of which are part of the same metropolitan area.
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London Rapid Transit (In-Design)
- Thread starter Midtown Urbanist
- Start date
I feel the same way about Vancouver Washington vs Vancouver Canada. I also think it's weird that there are two Kansas Cities (in Missouri and Kansas), both of which are part of the same metropolitan area.
44 North
Senior Member
Those are good examples of duplicate names, but I feel like they can get away with it because they're either close enough or practically incorporated with a larger city. KCK is essentially a suburb of KCM, and VW is across the river from Portland. London OTH is on its own, and is the centre of its annexed burgs. There's no other largish city around for 100km. SWO people think its fine. But I definitely think they should try to be unique if they want to be considered something more than a colonial backwater.
ssiguy2
Senior Member
As an ex-Londoner I can tell you that this discussion comes up in London every few decades but no one wants to change the name. London has a charm about it and she is what she is. London is one of those very rare cities where you would never want to visit but would like to live.
BTW......of all the endless names put forward the only one that seems to appeal to Londoners is The Forest City.
BTW......of all the endless names put forward the only one that seems to appeal to Londoners is The Forest City.
ssiguy2
Senior Member
London actually has a fairly dense urban form. It sprawls like all cities but also has very large apartment block districts that have high transit ridership. There are no "gaps" in London like get in other cities and much of this id due to London having no urban freeways so the communities within the city are well connected. Statistically it doesn't seem that dense but that is because a third of the city borders on the 401/402 south corridor in a huge annexation in the 1990s. The city of London actually borders the city of St.Thomas.
West of Adelaide I can't think of any gap in the urban form except for along densely populated and very busy Oxford Street and the gap is there because the city wanted it there for any potential rapid transit. The downtown has a surprisingly large and growing population and the downtown has seen a renaissance from the dark days of the 1990s due to the City making rejuvenation a priority and it has paid dividends and people are moving back downtown. Downtown is actually very busy with heavy pedestrian traffic and is surprisingly busy at night as London, due to all the students, actually has a pretty wicked little nightlife.
The LRT route will also go right down Richmond from King to UWO and beyond. Richmond is a high density and high income road. It also has a major hospital, is very walkable and is a destination street. It is one of Canada's nicest streets with big trees, beautiful Victoria Park, a large employment base, and from downtown King to Oxford Street is about 10 blocks of nothing but excellent restaurants, sidewalk cafes, coffee shops, bars, bistros, and some very good and high end shopping engulfed by some beautiful Victorian architecture.
West of Adelaide I can't think of any gap in the urban form except for along densely populated and very busy Oxford Street and the gap is there because the city wanted it there for any potential rapid transit. The downtown has a surprisingly large and growing population and the downtown has seen a renaissance from the dark days of the 1990s due to the City making rejuvenation a priority and it has paid dividends and people are moving back downtown. Downtown is actually very busy with heavy pedestrian traffic and is surprisingly busy at night as London, due to all the students, actually has a pretty wicked little nightlife.
The LRT route will also go right down Richmond from King to UWO and beyond. Richmond is a high density and high income road. It also has a major hospital, is very walkable and is a destination street. It is one of Canada's nicest streets with big trees, beautiful Victoria Park, a large employment base, and from downtown King to Oxford Street is about 10 blocks of nothing but excellent restaurants, sidewalk cafes, coffee shops, bars, bistros, and some very good and high end shopping engulfed by some beautiful Victorian architecture.
crs1026
Superstar
The one conundrum in the new routing is the proposal to send the west Oxford leg to the downtown and not directly across Oxford. This was exactly the situation when I lived there, before the Oxford bus ran all the way across town. It made for a very difficult trip across town.
Personally I would advocate a BRT across Oxford - it's a very busy road to drive, so some form of improved bus lanes or priority is desirable. That would better connect Fanshawe to the north west end of the city, and expedite transit to UWO.
I'm told that one in three residents in London is either a student or their employment is somehow connected to these two institutions.
- Paul
Personally I would advocate a BRT across Oxford - it's a very busy road to drive, so some form of improved bus lanes or priority is desirable. That would better connect Fanshawe to the north west end of the city, and expedite transit to UWO.
I'm told that one in three residents in London is either a student or their employment is somehow connected to these two institutions.
- Paul
ssiguy2
Senior Member
You raise a good point about Oxford.
Not being able to get crosstown will inhibit some riders from taking the BRT. Conversely this is why I think the city made a wise choice in making Oxford West a BRT route. The route is easily expandable {unlike LRT} and could be split at Wonderland so that the line goes from the western end points of Sherwood Park and one to Byron. Every other bus leaving those terminals could take the BRT to downtown or be a crosstown right down Oxford terminating at Fanshawe.
London's solid urban form will make the BRT and LRT routes have good ridership and the fact that London traffic is horrid means that, unlike most cities, the rapid transit will actually be competitive with the car.
Not being able to get crosstown will inhibit some riders from taking the BRT. Conversely this is why I think the city made a wise choice in making Oxford West a BRT route. The route is easily expandable {unlike LRT} and could be split at Wonderland so that the line goes from the western end points of Sherwood Park and one to Byron. Every other bus leaving those terminals could take the BRT to downtown or be a crosstown right down Oxford terminating at Fanshawe.
London's solid urban form will make the BRT and LRT routes have good ridership and the fact that London traffic is horrid means that, unlike most cities, the rapid transit will actually be competitive with the car.
Midtown Urbanist
Superstar
Having two BRT routes interlined will increase frequency over the shared portion, making waiting times much lower in the shared portion.
Having lived on Eglinton my whole life, there really is never a need for a car because bus frequency is so high. I am never waiting more than 3 minutes for a bus during the day. That kind of reliable transit service is a surefire way to have a successful transit system in London.
Having lived on Eglinton my whole life, there really is never a need for a car because bus frequency is so high. I am never waiting more than 3 minutes for a bus during the day. That kind of reliable transit service is a surefire way to have a successful transit system in London.
ssiguy2
Senior Member
London frequencies are actually pretty good and the service, considering the size of the city, is quite respectable. If you live within 5 km of the city centre you could comfortably live without a car in London.
Haljackey
Active Member
Conceptual LRT on Richmond. One lane.
Seeing this makes me cringe, but change is usually good. This will take the buses off the road which usually block the right lane. Also left turns will be eliminated which usually blocks the left lane.
As long as taxis / delivery trucks don't randomly stop on the road it might flow somewhat ok. More people will be encouraged to take transit which might help reduce the growth of traffic volume.
Seeing this makes me cringe, but change is usually good. This will take the buses off the road which usually block the right lane. Also left turns will be eliminated which usually blocks the left lane.
As long as taxis / delivery trucks don't randomly stop on the road it might flow somewhat ok. More people will be encouraged to take transit which might help reduce the growth of traffic volume.
ssiguy2
Senior Member
This is a REAL transit city proposal where LRT doesn't have to come with a guarantee of not taking up any car lanes like in Toronto.
dowlingm
Senior Member
As an isolated line/system (limited likelihood of passing cars to/from other systems), it might be worth considering wireless tech - maybe induction, maybe batteries with charging at stops. I'm usually a sceptic on this stuff but it would mean no centre poles so a narrower ROW and no whinging from emergency services about using it. Would look at fully sheltered island stops rather than side platforms with dinky ones too - London gets big snow dumps.
salsa
Senior Member
I don't see how removing lanes on Finch or Sheppard Ave would be a good thing. Those streets are not very wide to begin with for the amount of traffic they carry.
ssiguy2
Senior Member
Obviously you have never driven in London and particularly Richmond Street. Richmond is very congested inner city street.........and cannot be widened. It arguably the city's most important street connecting downtown thru highly commercial and residential Richmond Row past a major hospital to UWO with 35,000 students and a major hospital on ward to the fastest growing area of the city and the largest suburban shopping district in the city anchored by the 200 store Masonville Place. Richmond also has a small bridge over the north arm of the Thames which means that traffic can not take side streets to by pass Richmond.
As far as induction or some alternative............I know they have been very successful and continue to expand with Dallas being yet the newest city to employ them, I don't know how well they operate in the snow and how well they tolerate snow removal equipment. Maybe there is no problem at all, I have no idea but if they work it would be a great idea for such a congested and urbane street like Richmond.
As far as induction or some alternative............I know they have been very successful and continue to expand with Dallas being yet the newest city to employ them, I don't know how well they operate in the snow and how well they tolerate snow removal equipment. Maybe there is no problem at all, I have no idea but if they work it would be a great idea for such a congested and urbane street like Richmond.
Haljackey
Active Member
BRT is also being proposed in London. Here's a concept on Wellington Road, the main gateway between downtown and the 401:
ssiguy2
Senior Member
Looks great!
As a born and breed ex-Londoner, I know the city extremely well.
As far as both routes and choice of technologies on both I couldn't have dreamt of a better system if I tried. Everything about this system is excellent and , unlike some cities that shall remain nameless, London did not let petty politics take priority over sound transit policy.
With falling unemployment {now down to 7%}, a steady population growth rate of a respectable 1.0% a year, a strongly resurging downtown, a growing downtown population, many new downtown condos proposals, high speed rail, and an imaginative scheme to reconnect the city to the Thames in the downtown core, it is a very exciting time to be a Londoner.
As a born and breed ex-Londoner, I know the city extremely well.
As far as both routes and choice of technologies on both I couldn't have dreamt of a better system if I tried. Everything about this system is excellent and , unlike some cities that shall remain nameless, London did not let petty politics take priority over sound transit policy.
With falling unemployment {now down to 7%}, a steady population growth rate of a respectable 1.0% a year, a strongly resurging downtown, a growing downtown population, many new downtown condos proposals, high speed rail, and an imaginative scheme to reconnect the city to the Thames in the downtown core, it is a very exciting time to be a Londoner.