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King Street (Streetcar Transit Priority)

ChrisR said:
Paella at $38.99.

https://fredsnothere.com/dinner-menu/
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so about 1/4 of the price I paid for Paella in South Beach? But that was meant to serve two people so there is that.

Kidding aside......Paella really is a dish that can come in various forms and the "price" of it will depend greatly on the the mix and quantity of the meats......the one that I bought in SB was chock full of market fresh, expensive seafood........if you swing the mix to cheaper fish and a lot of sausage....then you can produce much cheaper (and possibly still enjoyable) Paella.....as I noted earlier, been >20 years since I was at FNH so I am in no position to comment on their Paella...but it is a hard dish to judge from a menu and price can vary greatly.

This site just listed the best 11 (why 11 I do not know) places for Paella in Toronto..... https://foursquare.com/top-places/toronto/best-places-paella


#1 is Patria....they have 4 varieties and the price is $30 (for a small) and $55 for a large.

at #7 they list Cava.....their Paella is $65 / serving.

There may be lots to critique FNH and it's owner about but the price of Paella does not seem to be one of them.

All this talk of this resto makes me want to go back there after a long hiatus and find out what's up.
 
ADRM said:
Also, not for nothing, but regular reminder that Fred's Not Here is a shit restaurant; the 3-Yelp-star and 3-Yelp-dollar sign nexus is a fairly rare hallmark of mediocrity, but one this Luddite has achieved.

And if you believe Dave T., the paella is $38.99.

View attachment 132009
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Thanks for pointing this out. I also left my review on Yelp and on Facebook.

I’m happy to support other businesses in the area but this chronic complainer has been fighting the community for too long. He wants a fight: he’s going to get one.
 
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darth_freeman said:
Why is everyone assuming that the business owners aren't looking at year/year data when making these claims?

It was only very cold for like 10 days. Wasn't their business down all fall?
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It wasn’t cold 10 days. There was a sudden drop in temperature and flurries hit before it was even Winter. Torontians seem to forget what Winter is until it arrives then they take some time to adapt. In the Fall, 10°C is “freezing” but in the Winter 10°C is patio weather. The extreme cold might have been just 10 days but the sudden drop in temps coincided with the beginning of the pilot. With the latest rise in temperature to just above 0°C, there have been people walking the streets again.

Regarding data, having available data from previous years on one business is incomplete and unusable data. It’s only relevant if compared against other businesses in the area and others around the city. That way, localized problems can be identified if business is down in one neighbourhood or dismissed if business is down citywide.
 
I think the Mayor has struck a reasonable tone in the discussion. Streetcar prioritization might be the right thing to do but I’m not sure why the discussion here is so focused on crapping on businesses complaining about the changes.

These changes have cause and effect. Some of that effect is throwing some businesses and operations under the bus. That doesn’t mean it’s the wrong thing to do. There is no such thing as a universally good idea where we all hold hands in a utopian fairy tail ending.

Businesses will change, adapt, prosper, go under etc. Even “evidence” like the Moneris data or that on the Bloor study are generally interesting but specifically irrelevant to the case of any individual.

There is also no guarantee that transit prioritization will have a positive impact on the street. There is no guarantee that adjacent residential density will insure the street is vibrant. There is no guarantee that street realm investments will improve the dynamics of the street. These things evolve organically towards their own equilibriums. A street can explode suddenly with vitality or remain a dead-zone even when endowed with heavy, thoughtful investments.

At the moment we have basically turned King into Bay Street just one is traffic sewer, the other is a Streetcar sewer. Hopefully this will change and evolve for the better (in both cases).
 
TrickyRicky said:
I think the Mayor has struck a reasonable tone in the discussion. Streetcar prioritization might be the right thing to do but I’m not sure why the discussion here is so focused on crapping on businesses complaining about the changes.
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Notice that we’re not “crapping” on business; we’re crapping on a specific business. Fred Luk is the worst kind of NIMBY and has been holding back the community around his restaurant for decades. He’s a chronic complainer and has cost this city dearly over the years.
 
Most of the restaurants near the theatres are tourist trap places that have always been mediocre. But that's just another reason to walk a few blocks north to Queen.

I am still mystified by the people at Forno Cultura. How many drive-up customers do hipster Italian bakeries actually get?
 
MetroMan said:
Notice that we’re not “crapping” on business; we’re crapping on a specific business. Fred Luk is the worst kind of NIMBY and has been holding back the community around his restaurant for decades. He’s a chronic complainer and has cost this city dearly over the years.
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Cost the city dearly?
What on earth are you talking about?
You keep talking about that guy. Do you have a personal vendetta against him?
 
MetroMan said:
Thanks for pointing this out. I also left my review on Yelp and on Facebook.

I’m happy to support other businesses in the area but this chronic complainer has been fighting the community for too long. He wants a fight: he’s going to get one.
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By default there's going to be people and business owners opposed to the transit mall, so I don't think Yelp reviews are the right tactic. And they probably have their reasons, with at least some iota of facts to back it. I don't believe it's scientific or anywhere near accurate, but a drop in business doesn't mean they expected people to park directly outside the establishment. They likely have previous clientele who simply don't want to park *anywhere near* the locale just because the transit mall tipped the scale of driving downtown from being exceptionally difficult/complicated to being extremely difficult/complicated.

And wasn't Adam Vaughan opposed to any transit mall proposal? He's one of the most urban councillors this city has ever seen. Long and short I'm lukewarm to the King transit mall just because I think it's delaying any RL or actual solution. We need a sub-grade line through the core. Bury the streetcar, build a subway, both. This King mall is way too insufficient.
 
44 North said:
By default there's going to be people and business owners opposed to the transit mall, so I don't think Yelp reviews are the right tactic. And they probably have their reasons, with at least some iota of facts to back it. I don't believe it's scientific or anywhere near accurate, but a drop in business doesn't mean they expected people to park directly outside the establishment. They likely have previous clientele who simply don't want to park *anywhere near* the locale just because the transit mall tipped the scale of driving downtown from being exceptionally difficult/complicated to being extremely difficult/complicated.

And wasn't Adam Vaughan opposed to any transit mall proposal? He's one of the most urban councillors this city has ever seen. Long and short I'm lukewarm to the King transit mall just because I think it's delaying any RL or actual solution. We need a sub-grade line through the core. Bury the streetcar, build a subway, both. This King mall is way too insufficient.
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Once again, we’re not talking about all the complaining businesses. Fred’s Not Here specifically has been forcefully opposing any progress on King Street for decades. Not just the King Street Pilot. This isn’t about having a different opinion; he’s been openly hostile to the community for many years. Most recently, he illegally interfered with the pilot by moving pedestrian segments of the pilot’s planters away from in front of his restaurant to create parking spots.

I have no problem debating businesses who have a different opinion but Fred Luk is a different animal altogether. He doesn’t deserve to do business in a community that he’s been actively fighting against for as long as he’s been here.

Please go back and read about him if you missed those pages. Outside of UrbanToronto, here’s a good place to start: https://twitter.com/shawnmicallef/status/944296399570644992

To my point, I’m not calling for a boycott of Portland Variety who have been very vocal in the press and tv pieces deriding the pilot. While I disagree with them, I continue to spend money there and recommend them to anyone looking for some of the best pastries in the neighbourhood.
 
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MTown said:
Just wondering, does anyone know if MEC is having issues with this?
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Nope. And you’d think they would since they’re one of the few businesses who can actually claim to depend on customers arriving by car given that they’re a destination people drive to from all over the city and sell large goods that require transportation by car.

I know that they were approached to join a group of businesses opposing the pilot and declined.
 
darth_freeman said:
Why is everyone assuming that the business owners aren't looking at year/year data when making these claims?
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Because the claim started on the first day (Sunday) they went into effect, from someone who has been making similar claims about every other thing that has happened in the last 20+ years that was going to destroy the business at his still surviving rather mediocre eatery.

darth_freeman said:
It was only very cold for like 10 days. Wasn't their business down all fall?
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That settles it then doesn't it? Much of the fall was over before they went in. If it was down all fall, then it's related to something else - this year's shows perhaps?

pstogios said:
Cost the city dearly?
What on earth are you talking about?
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In terms of the cost of lost time, in the nearly twenty years he's been battling against this pilot - which has been floating around forever.

pstogios said:
You keep talking about that guy. Do you have a personal vendetta against him?
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The guy is a lying whiny asshole, who is only interested in himself. He's been shouting wolf like this for decades. Did you not see this thread that documents it? https://twitter.com/shawnmicallef/status/944296399570644992
 
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MetroMan said:
That's the thing. We're not denying that data is false. There is no data...
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There is data, it's qualitative. Maybe it doesn't pass your litmus test for a valid data source (which of course is your right), but it's certainly no different than the pages of posts on here by you or I talking about first-hand qualitative experiences along the corridor, or the reams of Twitter posts that are tossed around...The only quantitative data we've seen thus far is TTC data that is only a small snapshot of what's going on. It's called starting a dialogue.
 
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